More water cooling questions.

[Neuromancer]

Building a shell approximately 10 inches wide 19 inches tall and 17 inches deep.

Front of case is 95% BlackIce GTZ 480 radiator. I will have dvdrw and fan controller mounted vertically to fit in the narrow width along side the rad (no room above or below it) Thinking of putting the 3k Kaze fans on the inside in a pull config (might not be doable though), so I can put filters on the front of the rad, without looking too stupid. DVD and fan controller (and PSU for that matter) not pictured. Took a 2200 PSI pressure washer (on medium spray tip) to get the crap outta the fins, so REALLY dont want to have to be pulling this apart every 3 months (no way will air get it out of there).

Inside. The positioning of the Res, is so that I can lay it on its side, so that the top of the res, is highest and makes a good fill point.

Is this a bad idea? The case will be standing vertically, which means the res will be sideways. It is not a question of leaking since the res has fill ports on both ends. So either way, if it leaks I am screwed lol. It is a question of function though.


As for the this layout is not final, I really wanted the PSU on the bootom , but I think for water reasons it will go on top of the mobo tray with drive cage on the bottom. Imagine this pic as if the side panel was off and the case is laying on its side.

Ideally Mobo tray will be centered with PSU on top. Normally I HATE reverse ATX format with PSU on top, but for water cooling reasons I think it is best. I would rather have water drip on a sealed HDD than an open PSU. I would rather have no drips at all, but hey, no one is perfect :) I do intend to use nylon clips (but I am using masterkleer which is a cheap soft material) so pretty sure a leak WILL eventually happen. Knowing me and my ham hands, if I used worm drives, I would end up slicing the tubing and have to start over :p

This watercooling setup is a great re-entrance into WC'ing. (I hope) and for the price I can't thank chicken Patty enough :) Thanks Dave!


Oh one last note. Pump I just placed on top of the HDD cage to show nominal placement. Measurements must still be made (I eyeballed everything so far and THINK I can make it work. Worst case scenario drives go up top with the PSU in a vertical orientation like the DVD/fan controller. Also HDD cage is not guaranteed I may skip it as I did on my other IPC to save space.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Overclockaholics/th_ipc006.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Overclockaholics/?action=view&current=ipc006.jpg)

[Bones]

Personally I'd keep the res outside of the case for obvious reasons if possible. However you decide to set it up, be sure to have what is called "Drip Points" / low points in your tubing when you run your hoses. That means the tubing has a little dip in it as it goes to each fitting. Remember that water always runs downhill and these loops or dips use that effect to control where small leaks would go and drip off.

You can control where this is to make things more predictable once it's setup to help avoid disaster.
After setting it up, you could set another machine beside it or simply place a PSU unit (Not hooked up to the WC'ed PC itself) and run the pump to check for leaks before powering it up. Make sure when doing this, you do not have a power cord plugged into your WC'ed setup since dripping water from a leak could possibly short the circuits inside causing your WC'ed machine to try and start during this time = Uh-Oh.

When I first setup my machine, I simply placed another PC alongside the machine, hooked up one of it's PSU wires and ran the pump from this machine so it could run without having power going to the WC'ed machine itself.
By doing it this way, if it had a leak you'd have no power going to the WC'ed machine itself and be able to fix those without frying your setup. That is what I did and I found a few when I did that, fixed them and once my testing and fixing was done, hooked it all up proper and it did fine.

[Neuromancer]

Oh yah, I know about leak checking. Take a staple from a staple gun bend it around a pair of needle nose, hook it into pins 14 and 15 on the main power cable, flip the switch and run :)

I know some people that actually build the loop outside of their cases (like I think you are suggesting) and leak test, install it and leak test again. I am not patient enough for that, so will leak test post install but keep power off the components. (Minus PSU that will be not plugged into anything of course)

I have run WC before (epic fail, not from leaking, just performance wise, leak testing did find a leak and I fixed it) and have researched my ass sometime after core 2 quad, as I thought I would need it for summertime.

TBH If I had not come back to intel, I still would not be WCing. These things are just freaking watt pigs though.

[Bones]

I already had the setup in place, filled and everything when I did the testing.

I simply did as described above to test run the system before actually applying power to the WC'ed system. That way if I had any leaks, there would be no risk of shorting anything out before I fixed the leaks I found.

[Neuromancer]

Great, thanks for the tip Bones :)

[Bones]

Keep a close eye on your rad. I noted you used a high pressure washer to clean it and while that's not a bad way to clean it out, it's possible to crack a solder seam by using a washer on it.

[Neuromancer]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Overclockaholics/th_wc001.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Overclockaholics/?action=view&current=wc001.jpg)http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Overclockaholics/th_wc002.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Overclockaholics/?action=view&current=wc002.jpg)

Tubing being added now.

This is a temporary setup obviously. I am moving out to the gargae (it has been converted to an apartment) so I have more space :) But only one window that opens :(

Slide is going to be spending a lot of time outside I think LOL

EDIT: Oh, and while the PSU is hooked up to the mobo (god first impressions of this board is that EVGA guys have never had to put a motherboard in a case. The cpu fan header is located between the sink and the PS/2 port. Needed needlenose to attach it, same with the CPU power cable (wire is stiff though so did not need the plierS)

24 ATX socket was so tight I was worried about breaking the mobo attaching it (could be the new PSU though...)

[Neuromancer]

Holy cow. 20 minutes to get one hose on the pump. So tight it does not even need clamps (I put one on anyway, but doubt it will be effective since it was hard to get to even one click with it

[Neuromancer]

Leak tested for about an hour. Rad is in the window without the fans blowing yet.

Decided to boot her up and...


F3-F6 post codes is all I can get (slight Flash on the reset button after F6) rinse and repeat thrice then it powers down for 4 seconds.

If I reset CMOS it powers up with F3 code shuts off. Then goes back to F3-F6 post codes.

If I pull all the ram and the video card.. same thing, so it is not even getting to a point of initializing IRQ I assume.

going to try swapping out the PSU for my fortron and see if that works (doubtful:( )

EDIT: okay it did work until I hooked it all up :s now that does not work either.. I had all peripherals removed all ready so it isnt them....

[Kal-EL]

Dammit I hate when that happens. You work so hard getting everything setup and blam, no boot. I'd check to see if the mount is too tight and then re-mount the cpu aside from all the good troubleshooting stuff that I know you already know about.

Nice progress until boot tho :thumbsup:

[Neuromancer]

Man I looked up in the manual twice before installing RAM to make sure I had it in the right spot.

I first got the board and said "Man it will be really gay if the whole board is bloack, and I have to put RAM in the black slots so the green ones stick out."

Read the manual, and that is what I saw. Put the ram in the black slots. Checked again. Tried booting with one stick. Finally moved it to last DIMM slot (a green one) and it fired up.

Still does the F3-F6 post things 3 times, but it fires up now :)

Going to rip off the stock cooler, put the water back on and pray to god I can figure out all these new crazy BIOS settings.

[Kal-EL]

Least ur breathin again bro :D

[Neuromancer]

heh heh yah only took me about 10 minutes to cool down :)

[Kal-EL]

I know how it is, you get frustrated cuz things are supposed to work like magic but then the noobness sneaks up and bites ur arse for not reading the manual! ;)

[Neuromancer]

LOL the sad part is, I read the manual TWICE and swore it the diagram showed the black slots being 1,3,5 (I should have known better my MSI board was the same way.

Anywho, definietly need to soak the pump and rad after I pull the loop apart. with 47F window air, I am prime 64 blending at 4200 MHZ 58-54-59-54 (60-56-60-55 with fans at 7v)

I know someone is going to say... check your mount, I will, but this CPU had that same disparity of core temperatures on air on the other board as well. So the 5C differnce is "normal" for this chip


Gave it 1.4v cuz thats how I roll, Mem at 1600 7-7-7 . Going to DL eleet and see how much more I can ask of her at 1.4 ;)

Oh not a benching PC yet, I have not reinstalled windows just plugged it in set raid in BIOS and away we go :)

[Neuromancer]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Overclockaholics/wc001-1.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Overclockaholics/wc002-1.jpg

Had it up to 4.65 HTT and yes that is a 15C idle CPU socket temp shot :)
(cores were running 25-30C idle 60C load) Mem crapped out at 1800 7-7-7 at 1.8v though. So going to drop to 8-8-8 before I go about giving it more volts :)

Gotta go help my cuz do some drywall today, might get an opportunity to OC some, unless I stick around to watch the game tonight. GO EAGLES!

Can't wait till I take this loop apart and clean out hte block and rad :) Should make a nice difference. Also going to call around to some art supply stores locally and grab some kneaded eraser for when it gets colder :D

[Chicken Patty]

Man, that setup is treating ya good dude :)

Did you end up getting the same board as me? If so hit me up on MSN if you have any questions, I pretty much no this board by memory lol and its BIOS settings too!

[Kal-EL]

Wow, I like that setup Neuronutterz :D
Droooool :good:

[Neuromancer]

Will be a lot nicer if I can drop a 295 on it ;) Although dunno how well the 4 fan rad would keep ALL that heat cool ;)

[Chicken Patty]

bro i7's put out lotta heat. I don't know how that rad will handle a 295

[Witchdoctor]

May need to think about a second loop or you will sacrifice temps on the CPU ......

Question is are the thermal gains worth it ..... depending on the bench I would say possibly .. but a second loop no sacrifice would be required... just like everything it is a matter of economics .... and obviously from the picture the outside ambient will be a large factor in this as well .......

Good luck .... if you try it I would be intrested to see the before and after temps with outdoor ambient being static if possible ..... It would shed some light on how effective these quad rads are .... :Hi:

[Neuromancer]

Ah well, I ran out of money and the 295 hydrocopper sold for $276 :(

In retrospect I should have just bid more and found a way to come up with the money in the next 3 days, now I am looking at spending over $300 for an air cooled version WTF?

Looks like I will be getting a decent silent midrange ATI card for my main rig and throwing the 4890 back on the i7 instead (oh yah like thats a complaint LOL)

Really wanted to try out 200 series, but them's the breaks. It is really hard justifying the expense on an nVidia card now, since it is all they have out, the prices are not dropping to meet the performance level :( With GT300 not coming out for another 4-6 months probably, I expect there will be no price drops in the near future either.

And yes I am very frugal :p

[Bones]

Holy cow. 20 minutes to get one hose on the pump. So tight it does not even need clamps (I put one on anyway, but doubt it will be effective since it was hard to get to even one click with it

Sorry I didn't catch this earlier but here's a tip for future reference. You can use HOT water to soften the end of the the tubing so when you go to slip it onto the barb, it will slip on easier. Just do it quickly once the end has been heated and it should be a breeze. You did the right thing by placing a clamp on it anyway however tight it may have been.

[Neuromancer]

Yah, I almost resorted to that but I figured out a another method. Second Pump tube took only 2 minutes to get on :)

(use your fist like an "anti-kink" sleeve around the tube. Put it at 45 degree agle to barb, push and push and push. then Pull the tube towards the "high side" maybe pull the tubing back off a little to get it even and push some more :) )

The "sleeve" works to keep the tubing from just crushing up against the barb and not going on :)

[Kal-EL]

Missed that last one too, hair dryer works too.

[Neuromancer]

Vertically mounting a radiator.

Should barbs be at the top or the bottom of the rad?

[Chicken Patty]

Vertically mounting a radiator.

Should barbs be at the top or the bottom of the rad?

In your case, with the height of that rad, it has to be the bottom. If not the barbs will end up about 3 feet over the case :laughing:

[Neuromancer]

LOL well the case is being built to hold the rad...

Which is better for performance?

[Chicken Patty]

LOL well the case is being built to hold the rad...

Which is better for performance?

Either way the water has to travel up then back down. I'd keep the barbs at the bottom though, just my two cents.

[Witchdoctor]

Agreed ... it does not matter in the laest

what matters is the head ... which it the total height the water has to travel in the system. The lower the less head. This is how pumps are rated ...

so for example you may have a pump that can do 4' of head at 400 GPH but with 3' of head that same pump would be able to do 500 GPH ....

so the lower you can keep it in reference to the pump location the better

tube length also goes into it but is not as much of a factor as head pressure.

there are formulas for head and drag so you can figure out your exact flow rate based on the real world application as well as knowing the specifications of the fittings you use.

[Neuromancer]

Bottom it is than, thanks all.

[Kal-EL]

Agreed ... it does not matter in the laest

what matters is the head ... which it the total height the water has to travel in the system. The lower the less head. This is how pumps are rated ...

so for example you may have a pump that can do 4' of head at 400 GPH but with 3' of head that same pump would be able to do 500 GPH ....

so the lower you can keep it in reference to the pump location the better

tube length also goes into it but is not as much of a factor as head pressure.

there are formulas for head and drag so you can figure out your exact flow rate based on the real world application as well as knowing the specifications of the fittings you use.
SO, theoretically, if you're loop is the total distance of 3 feet, you're flow should be 500GPH, 6 feet, 250GPH. Whatever the case, it matters not as long as you have some sorta flow IMO. Eventually the temperatures even out thru the loop and then its a matter of how well the heat is moved away from you're rad. If you have a restrictive block, you'll want a pump with some torque (head) I suppose. Pump and Head, shouldn't ever be apart. ;)

[Witchdoctor]

Those numbers were for example only.

All pump's have a swing.

this swing starts at the same elevation as the pump. This has a value in GPH or GPM depending on manufaturer.
from there as you raise evelvation from said pump the swing starts to drop that value as the pump has to work harder to get the water to that elevation.

You could argue that flow rate is important with blocks designed for high turbulance.

These blocks thrive on high flow and high volumes of water. The disapation of heat energy across a rad is often times better with slower flow rates holding the water in the rads longer for better heat trasfer in that part of the system.

so if you are pushing 300 GPM through the block and the temp of the water coming out of the rad is higher than your input water to the CPU you can play with flow rates to maximize what ever the system you have. This is one nice feature about varible speed pumps. If it is colder then you could increase the flow rate for max turbulance at the block for better heat transfer at that point....

Sorry if this does not make sence but heat transfer is a very predictable process that can be controlled by flow rates and temps despite what many beleive. H2O is tweakable and can be controlled with the right equipment...

but in the end no tweaking will gain as much as sticking your rad out the window on a 20 degree night .............LOL

[Chicken Patty]

People laugh at ghetto ways to do things, but a rad out the window is ghetto and very VERY effective! :)

[Neuromancer]

but in the end no tweaking will gain as much as sticking your rad out the window on a 20 degree night .............LOL


Yah I am running like 12 feet of hose right now... but it is VERY VERY effective :)

he hehh

Actually just finished the first half of the case for the watercooled i7 rig *sigh

I am going to pick up some J channel though and make a nice u shaped thing to hold the end of my chill air duct. Might not be as effective as rad in the window... but better than a rad in a warm room for sure :)

Should give me a nice balance of quit gaming rig, and loud extreme clocking rig :)


Also doing a big no no and using the rad to push air into the case... but considering at full power I can cycle the air in the case approximately 6.6667 times a SECOND I am not to worried about that :)

[Bones]

People laugh at ghetto ways to do things, but a rad out the window is ghetto and very VERY effective! :)

Mine is about as ghetto or redneck as it gets. Partially made of stuff from Wal-Mart :) of all places to get parts for a WC setup but it's working at least. So far, no probs running it that way and the system keeps things cool.

I do have my res mounted higher than the rest of the system on purpose since the MCP655 vario's don't like dry starts and that actually primes the system before I ever turn it on. Yes, the pump I'm running is about the best you'll get for the price range and it's very quiet, handles the load nicely and doesn't dump alot of heat into the loop.

[Chicken Patty]

Mine is about as ghetto or redneck as it gets. Partially made of stuff from Wal-Mart :) of all places to get parts for a WC setup but it's working at least. So far, no probs running it that way and the system keeps things cool.

I do have my res mounted higher than the rest of the system on purpose since the MCP655 vario's don't like dry starts and that actually primes the system before I ever turn it on. Yes, the pump I'm running is about the best you'll get for the price range and it's very quiet, handles the load nicely and doesn't dump alot of heat into the loop.

You should show us a pic or two of your setup :)

[Bones]

You should show us a pic or two of your setup :)

Already have those posted here:
http://www.overclockaholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815

[Chicken Patty]

Already have those posted here:
http://www.overclockaholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=815

pretty cool how you made that functional man, Is that a Koolance 120 rad?

[Bones]

Yes it is. Had two setup but only have one right now and the other has been set aside for the moment.

[Chicken Patty]

Yes it is. Had two setup but only have one right now and the other has been set aside for the moment.

I have one laying here. Thinking of using it to cool my GX2 :D just need to get out of a situation I'm in so I can buy the rest of the water cooling gear. That Rad cooled my Phenom 9950 with Push/Pull fans very good actually. Not bad for a pretty thin radiator.

[Neuromancer]

Well got the loop cleaned up today. The block was gunky EWWW

Also the insert in the block might have been in upside down. So hoping that fixes the core temp discrepancy a bit (like 8C difference between core 0/1 and 2/3 (not sure hte exact numbers,, two of them report 8C differnet than the other two. Looking at hte block design if the "channel insert" was in backwards that would explain it.

HDD should be here tomorrow so going to try getting this all installed in the case today and starting leak testing tonight :)

[Chicken Patty]

You know that I tried the right way and the other way to have the water flowing through the block and to me I didn't do a difference.

Glad you cleaned up the loop bro, that gunk is caused by the high temps and feser one fluid.

[Neuromancer]

Yah it was not REALLY bad but was gunky. Gotta check and make sure I mount the block the right way too before I put it in the case. Was supposed to be done today, but just got back from Christmas shopping and now my Eagles are playing, maybe later tonight I will get a chance to work on it :) Although I got up at 4:30 this morning so coffee or not that probably will not happen lol

[Chicken Patty]

pansy! listen to the game on the radio or something while you install the block :laugh:

[Neuromancer]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Handyman/th_ewww001.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Handyman/?action=view&current=ewww001.jpg)

Not TOO bad :)

Hopefully it helps. Popped some ketchup on it after gently rubbing it with a soft toothbrush. Only left it on for 15 minutes or so though so not much of an effect probably. Next time will clean it better :)

[Chicken Patty]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Handyman/th_ewww001.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/cyber42punk/Handyman/?action=view&current=ewww001.jpg)

Not TOO bad :)

Hopefully it helps. Popped some ketchup on it after gently rubbing it with a soft toothbrush. Only left it on for 15 minutes or so though so not much of an effect probably. Next time will clean it better :)

That's actually not bad at all, I've seen wayyyyy worse. That is my block, right?

[Neuromancer]

Yah, not bad at all, only filled up maybe a half a cracker, tasted TERRIBLE though.

[Chicken Patty]

You tasted it? WTF lol

[Neuromancer]

LOL nah just joking :)

[Chicken Patty]

LOL nah just joking :)

I was about to say. Man, you know what I just noticed. My Mega Shadow is giving me better temps at higher clocks than the water setup. How the f**k???

[Neuromancer]

Really, Im getting at least 20C better load temps, idle no change really.

20C better load temps and MUCH quieter :)

[Chicken Patty]

Really, Im getting at least 20C better load temps, idle no change really.

20C better load temps and MUCH quieter :)

I came across a screenshot where my max on real temp during wprime at 4620 Mhz 1.494v was 98ºc! My Mega the most I See is 88-89ºc.

[Neuromancer]

DAMN You suck at water cooling :)

lol jk

Thanks for the loop though working GREAT for me :)

[Chicken Patty]

DAMN You suck at water cooling :)

lol jk

Thanks for the loop though working GREAT for me :)

no problem, and for the price. :thumbsup::D