Bored with Tech??

[Chuchnit]

Hey guys, I'm wondering if you are as board with technology as I am latley. I remember last year it was exciting to get up and check the tech news for new stuff. Now it seems like nothing is happening. Lets look at just 2010. We get Classified SR-2, 5870 Lightning, 32nm launch from intel. That is really about it. I guess it's in part because of the economy, and the fact that nvidia can't launch a freaking product. :thumbdown:

Don't get me wrong, I still love technology. It just seems like after the 5870 launch 7 months ago, nothing exciting has happened. Like I said, it used to be exciting to check the news threads on varius forums in the morning to see whats new. Not anymore.... You guys feel the same way?

[DrNip]

I think it has actually been a little more exciting this year. True last year Intel was in a tic phase and released the i7 but this year the 6 core was released as well as the clarkies and a few others to mention. Last year I only remember ATI releasing the 4890 and the 5 series. This year will be the 5890. I can't remember Nvidia really releasing anything other than a re-branded card but this year will be the year of the Fermi. Sata 3 will be in full force this year and with that comes many of new exciting things like the new Crucial RealSSD C300, which I might say will be picking one up in a month or so, as well as a whole new line of mobos with Sata 3. Maybe USB 3 will be out too this year. HWBot finallly got a long over due revision. Don't give up on this year yet as we are still only in the 1st quarter. We have three more to go. I know last year we didn't have this much released within the 1st quarter.

[Witchdoctor]

Yea I know what you are saying ...... but it will come ...
What pisses me off is Intel could easily release some more affordable 32nm chips but feel they have to milk the status quoe that simply has not the patcience to wait for it.
I think the few out there that will spend 1K on a chip will do so weather there are cheaper products availible or not ...
the open multies have their place but unfortunatly not in my rig
with nV ready to go by months end and a possible refresh via 5890 come April. I am hopeful things are turning around in the tech news .....

[Chuchnit]

I think it has actually been a little more exciting this year. True last year Intel was in a tic phase and released the i7 but this year the 6 core was released as well as the clarkies and a few others to mention. Last year I only remember ATI releasing the 4890 and the 5 series. This year will be the 5890. I can't remember Nvidia really releasing anything other than a re-branded card but this year will be the year of the Fermi. Sata 3 will be in full force this year and with that comes many of new exciting things like the new Crucial RealSSD C300, which I might say will be picking one up in a month or so, as well as a whole new line of mobos with Sata 3. Maybe USB 3 will be out too this year. HWBot finallly got a long over due revision. Don't give up on this year yet as we are still only in the 1st quarter. We have three more to go. I know last year we didn't have this much released within the 1st quarter.

I guess you are right. Alot of stuff has come out. Maybe it's just me? I mean for instance I'm not all that into SSD's and such but would still get excited when new stuff was announced. Maybe with all the shit going on in my life this past year I need to lay off of the....

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=17341&stc=1&d=1261364783

Yea I know what you are saying ...... but it will come ...
What pisses me off is Intel could easily release some more affordable 32nm chips but feel they have to milk the status quoe that simply has not the patcience to wait for it.
I think the few out there that will spend 1K on a chip will do so weather there are cheaper products availible or not ...
the open multies have their place but unfortunatly not in my rig
with nV ready to go by months end and a possible refresh via 5890 come April. I am hopeful things are turning around in the tech news .....

Well even though I won't be getting a unlocked GT, it does still excite me. I guess the lack of a competitive market in graphics is where the percieved slowdown is? God I can't wait till Fermi launches. It should for sure make life a little more exciting. :clapping:

[ReverendMaynard]

Yea I know what you are saying ...... but it will come ...
What pisses me off is Intel could easily release some more affordable 32nm chips but feel they have to milk the status quoe that simply has not the patcience to wait for it.
I think the few out there that will spend 1K on a chip will do so weather there are cheaper products availible or not ...
the open multies have their place but unfortunatly not in my rig
with nV ready to go by months end and a possible refresh via 5890 come April. I am hopeful things are turning around in the tech news .....



You have to look at the greater picture WD, don't be so narrow minded brother. Contrary to popular belief, Intel, AMD and the like give very little of a shat about overclockers, who tend to think the cpu and platform world revolves around their interests. It doesn't.

It's all about selling hundreds of thousands of chips to OEM's like HP, Dell, Apple....the ones that pay them large bank opposed to the very small, minuscule percentage of....us, the clocker. Tech releases strategically, to hit lease cycles more than anything.

So go with the flow, pound the shit out of what you have and if you're board find something else to help tide you over brother.

[Chuchnit]

You have to look at the greater picture WD, don't be so narrow minded brother. Contrary to popular belief, Intel, AMD and the like give very little of a shat about overclockers, who tend to think the cpu and platform world revolves around their interests. It doesn't.

It's all about selling hundreds of thousands of chips to OEM's like HP, Dell, Apple....the ones that pay them large bank opposed to the very small, minuscule percentage of....us, the clocker. Tech releases strategically, to hit lease cycles more than anything.

So go with the flow, pound the shit out of what you have and if you're board find something else to help tide you over brother.

Wise words brother. :thumbsup:


I still have a gut feeling that enthusiast play a bigger role in margins than they want us to believe. I have no numbers to back this up so I could just be retarded. I have been called that before :Dizzy: I mean nvidia even says that geforce cards are 75% of units sold while quadro is 75% of revenue because of mark up. Us overclockers/non-overclocking enthusiast probably pad the margins much more than they want to let us know.

[Hondacity]

its actually good

no particular order
- usb3
- ssd
- 32nm cpu
- prolly new acards
- gold power supplies
- win 7 replacement?
- i7 macbooks
- low voltage ddr3
- fermi
- gf100


i still have more shit going but i just woke up lol

[Witchdoctor]

Yea your prolly right Rev ... just don't know what you would do with an open multi in a BIOS locked OEM .... if that were the case wouldn't you think lower priced comsumer marketed chips would hit the shelves first via the Best Buy 599 special and shit like that.
I may just not understand, but outside of the overclocking community why would an end user that has no idea how to exsploit the open multi spend the denaro on a 980
It has to be targeted at our community in some capacity I have to beleive ....




You have to look at the greater picture WD, don't be so narrow minded brother. Contrary to popular belief, Intel, AMD and the like give very little of a shat about overclockers, who tend to think the cpu and platform world revolves around their interests. It doesn't.

It's all about selling hundreds of thousands of chips to OEM's like HP, Dell, Apple....the ones that pay them large bank opposed to the very small, minuscule percentage of....us, the clocker. Tech releases strategically, to hit lease cycles more than anything.

So go with the flow, pound the shit out of what you have and if you're board find something else to help tide you over brother.

[ReverendMaynard]

Wise words brother. :thumbsup:


I still have a gut feeling that enthusiast play a bigger role in margins than they want us to believe. I have no numbers to back this up so I could just be retarded. I have been called that before :Dizzy: I mean nvidia even says that geforce cards are 75% of units sold while quadro is 75% of revenue because of mark up. Us overclockers/non-overclocking enthusiast probably pad the margins much more than they want to let us know.

I can honestly tell you that the enthusiast market is a drop in the proverbial bucket. Guinea Pigs? Yes. Influential, eff no.

[Chuchnit]

I can honestly tell you that the enthusiast market is a drop in the proverbial bucket. Guinea Pigs? Yes. Influential, eff no.

Could be very true. I just don't see why they cater to us so much then? They always tell us we aren't important, but I have a hard time trusting them. You got some inside scoop? I'm not saying we even scratch the surface much on units sold, but I'm pretty sure they have way higher margins with us vs. OEM's. BTW, do you work in the tech industry in some capacity?


its actually good

no particular order
- usb3
- ssd
- 32nm cpu
- prolly new acards
- gold power supplies
- win 7 replacement?
- i7 macbooks
- low voltage ddr3
- fermi
- gf100


i still have more shit going but i just woke up lol

I guess you guys are right. I'd say most of my problem is my attitude due to outside influences. I even notice it sometimes in the way I post. Time to get some warm saline wash I guess.

[ReverendMaynard]

Could be very true. I just don't see why they cater to us so much then? They always tell us we aren't important, but I have a hard time trusting them. You got some inside scoop? I'm not saying we even scratch the surface much on units sold, but I'm pretty sure they have way higher margins with us vs. OEM's. BTW, do you work in the tech industry in some capacity?



I guess you guys are right. I'd say most of my problem is my attitude due to outside influences. I even notice it sometimes in the way I post. Time to get some warm saline wash I guess.

I'm an imaging engineer for one of the big 3 so I guess I'd have a bit of a different perspective.

Margin wise, we as overclockers obviously get raped as end users, but you have to look at how much product is being moved in either direction. It's all about compressed volume my good man. That goes right down to the small or hidden details like manufacturing costs being paid upfront, shipping costs, storage costs...etc. Deals are cut that no one ever hears about, palms are greased, season tickets are slipped into handshakes and greeting cards. Intel has no real relationship with the overclocker, so in essence, the amount of sway we have is microscopic.

Think about it like this; would Intel want to sell $5,000,000 worth of product to hundreds or thousands of distributors/retailers, or would they want to sell $100,000,000 worth of product to one source?

[Chuchnit]

No I totally see what you are saying. I'm not saying that we make a big blip on the balance sheet if all enthusiast went purely to AMD. I'm talking about total revenue here. Where I'm saying that these manufacturers really like us is in their gross margins ;) I'm saying they use us to expand their margins, not pay the bills. Intel would still do great without us, but its nice to have primo paying customers.

So yes I understand Intel keeps the lights on with OEM sales, and yes they love to move $100,000,000 of product at a time. The question is to they make 50% percent of the profit made on a $100,000,000 OEM sale on say $20,000,000 worth of sales to the DIY market?

[ReverendMaynard]

Overclocking could cease tomorrow, and Intel wouldn't flinch.

[Chuchnit]

Overclocking could cease tomorrow, and Intel wouldn't flinch.

Agreed. I'm not saying we are THAT important. Just more important than they give us credit for. All we do is pad the margins. Like I said, every overclocker could switch to AMD and intel wouldn't sweat. That doesn't mean we aren't a very nice customer to have. ;)

[ReverendMaynard]

Agreed. I'm not saying we are THAT important. Just more important than they give us credit for. All we do is pad the margins. Like I said, every overclocker could switch to AMD and intel wouldn't sweat. That doesn't mean we aren't a very nice customer to have. ;)

for sure man. Like I said, we're guinea pigs, great set of users that can take their shit to the limit. We also find allot of problems that wouldn't be exposed so it's a double edged sword.

[Chuchnit]

That and some of us buy 1000 dollar CPU's that cost the same to make as 299 dollar CPU's ;)



Lightbulb moment... I betcha there is a very good reason for no cheap 32nm i7's. Back in FSB days, intel could limit the multi enough to pretty much justify the need for more expensive CPU's. Now they tried to do the same thing with i7, but thanks to people like shamino that plan was ruined. I bet Intel never expected 250+ bclock out of the x58 chipset. I know the wolfdales changed things a little, but with the s775 quads, you had to get the unlocked chip to play the game. Now with i7, its just a matter of a Classified and a 920 to bench with 70%+ of the more expensive i7's. Remember too that it was a long time before there were unlocked i7's that would bench any higher than a juiced up 920.

[Witchdoctor]

Yea I get it, but still a lot of things seem aimed at us

1. Open multi (No reason to have it if not to overclock, Seems as it is aimed directly at us)
2. Why get ES chips to the overclocking community any time let alone pre release ( I am fairly certain that the average Big Box Store/OEM customer has no idea who Kinpin is)
3. Why spend money to improve the stepping of an already top selling CPU (I think almost every one of us bought a C and ended up with a DO)

Some of Intels movements seemed to be aimed at us.
Is all this just marketing to get good press ..... ?

[Chuchnit]

Steppings can be explained by intel wanting to improve yields. Everything else is a great point. ;)

[ReverendMaynard]

Guys, how many 965, 975 or 980x have sold or will sell? In the thousands, opposed to in the 10's of MILLIONS for parts like the 6600 or 8400.

Think bigger boys.

EDIT: WD do you think a product engineer from say Dell looks at what kingpin does with an engineering sample and immediately orders 100,000 units based on how well they overclock?

[Witchdoctor]

LOL ............ great point prolly around .000000000001% of there i7 sales I would venture to guess

[FACE]

All very good points.

Of course it's done for marketing purposes.. We are better that free advertising. We actually pay for the products, and then put our results on the interwebs for the world to see..... super effective marketing.

Googling hardware shows shopping and forums for the most part. People boasting about their speeds really help to line a manufacturer's pockets in the long run.

[Chuchnit]

Well they are trying to get around that .0000000001% of i7 sales by only releasing the EE version for the first few months. ;) Great clocking 920's and the Classified boards probably killed their expected EE sales this generation.


I would like to know what their margins are for cheap dualies to big OEM's like Dell/HP are vs. DIY. Then I'd like to know in a dollar amount how much money they made from each segment. Betcha they never let that cat out of the bag.

[FACE]

I think legally they have to anymore. My GF was just doing a margin report on intel for her forensic accounting classes a few months ago.

I do not think it shows margin by product, but it details margins by quarter and yearly marks

[Splave]

all I want this year is fermi, gulfi rev that clocks past 6, Gran turismo 5, and SC2

[FACE]

all I want this year is fermi, gulfi rev that clocks past 6, Gran turismo 5, and SC2

Yeah right.... GT5 will never exist in full glory.... I've been waiting for that frackin game since the PS3 came out....

[Chuchnit]

I think legally they have to anymore. My GF was just doing a margin report on intel for her forensic accounting classes a few months ago.

I do not think it shows margin by product, but it details margins by quarter and yearly marks

Right, they will report margins as a company in the quarterly reports, but broken down by segment is something that is gonna stay inside the boardroom. ;)

all I want this year is fermi, gulfi rev that clocks past 6, Gran turismo 5, and SC2

Better knock them last two off that list. You got a top 10 worldwide spot to catch. :good:


J/K

[ReverendMaynard]

all I want this year is fermi, gulfi rev that clocks past 6, Gran turismo 5, and SC2

Word on all accounts. Until then (GT5 release) I'm lovin NFS:Shift on the PS3. I play online with a few work friends, we have a blast.

[Witchdoctor]

By years end I want the 480 and the refresh AKA 485 and the 5890 refresh plus the 6870 pwnage last quarter and a decent priced 32nm CPU preferably a 6 core ......

Wouldn't complain if some large capacity SSD hit the streets to at a decent price point

Can hardly stand mechanical drives at this point ..... even my raptor seems like a dog now :scared:

[FACE]

By years end I want the 480 and the refresh AKA 485 and the 5890 refresh plus the 6870 pwnage last quarter and a decent priced 32nm CPU preferably a 6 core ......

Wouldn't complain if some large capacity SSD hit the streets to at a decent price point

Can hardly stand mechanical drives at this point ..... even my raptor seems like a dog now :scared:

+1 on everything you just said except the ssd's

I have a hard enough time keeping my os's together on mech drives. I would have os's shitting on me left and right if I decided to bench on ssd's. :laughing:

[Witchdoctor]

That's funny as I have hade win7 on an SSD and in the mean time have installed XP three times on XP for coruption ..... LOL

Love um ..... :thumbsup:

Hold on bro one day in our life times that will be the only choice ....... :ohcrap:

[ReverendMaynard]

Well they are trying to get around that .0000000001% of i7 sales by only releasing the EE version for the first few months. ;) Great clocking 920's and the Classified boards probably killed their expected EE sales this generation.


I would like to know what their margins are for cheap dualies to big OEM's like Dell/HP are vs. DIY. Then I'd like to know in a dollar amount how much money they made from each segment. Betcha they never let that cat out of the bag.

EE sales might help recoup some R&D costs, but profit isn't a motivation. It gives engineering time to refine the mainstream parts for mass production for OEM's. Testing the waters.

Always keep volume in mind as well Chuch. It costs Intel the same $ to ship one boxed cpu as it does 50 OEM cpu's. Size, weight, packaging, heatsinks, manuals...all cost $. The new heatsink and fan for the 980X probably costs 20x's more to produce than the old style, but they are selling the cpu at or close to the same cost as the 965 when it released. Larger box, more space on the skid...more money. Bigger footprint, bigger cost, less profit.

I got into a good one with a mate a while ago about the exuberant cost of SSD's. Why? They are cheaper to assemble, less complicated mechanically, they weigh much less, they make less of a footprint, so why hasn't those cost cuts right from the source made the prices more reasonable?

[Chuchnit]

Man you guys sure have a sweet looking wish list. :)

[Chuchnit]

EE sales might help recoup some R&D costs, but profit isn't a motivation. It gives engineering time to refine the mainstream parts for mass production for OEM's. Testing the waters.

Always keep volume in mind as well Chuch. It costs Intel the same $ to ship one boxed cpu as it does 50 OEM cpu's. Size, weight, packaging, heatsinks, manuals...all cost $. The new heatsink and fan for the 980X probably costs 20x's more to produce than the old style, but they are selling the cpu at or close to the same cost as the 965 when it released. Larger box, more space on the skid...more money. Bigger footprint, bigger cost, less profit.

I got into a good one with a mate a while ago about the exuberant cost of SSD's. Why? They are cheaper to assemble, less complicated mechanically, they weigh much less, they make less of a footprint, so why hasn't those cost cuts right from the source made the prices more reasonable?

Yah I know. Intels volume is probably hard for the mind to take in. I mean they have how much market share? Then multiply that by all the computers in the world :shock:

You are probably right about just taking care of R&D, but that is a luxury. I'm gonna go along the lines of I've lost my mind, think DIY market is bigger than it is, and call you right. :good:

[ReverendMaynard]

Yah I know. Intels volume is probably hard for the mind to take in. I mean they have how much market share? Then multiply that by all the computers in the world :shock:

You are probably right about just taking care of R&D, but that is a luxury. I'm gonna go along the lines of I've lost my mind, think DIY market is bigger than it is, and call you right. :good:

Love talking about this shit chuch, and nothing you're saying is really wrong, but just from a different perspective.

[Chuchnit]

I know, but I'm too lazy to keep going back and forth. Plus I tend to come off as an asshole in discussions like this, and I don't want that. ;) My economic mind is rusty since I haven't used it in a while so I can't get my point across in correct terms. In the grandest scheme of things though, you are most likely right. We probably pay for the initial investment of the new process technology so they can make a killing in the OEM market.

[DrNip]

Man you guys sure have a sweet looking wish list. :)

Just sold some stocks to pick me up that Crucial SSD I spoke of. Been wanting one since last year and never followed thru with it. Going to wait and see what the fermi as well as 5890 do before I jump on that boat. :D

[Witchdoctor]

not to mention now with the Atom and low power consumption stuff I think they may make a move tawards smrat phones and crap like that

Thinking about how many phones are sold in this disposable phone age is mind boggeling .............

[ReverendMaynard]

I know, but I'm too lazy to keep going back and forth. Plus I tend to come off as an asshole in discussions like this, and I don't want that. ;) My economic mind is rusty since I haven't used it in a while so I can't get my point across in correct terms. In the grandest scheme of things though, you are most likely right. We probably pay for the initial investment of the new process technology so they can make a killing in the OEM market.

lol, never thought you came off like an ahole at all. I just walk out of my lab, look at the sprawling warehouse filled with every kind, shape, style, speed, color of computer you can imagine and think about how our stock is 100% flushed every 3 months, replaced by new stock...then I think about the 50 other branches like us in Canada and the US, then I think globally...then I shit my pants.

[Chuchnit]

Just sold some stocks to pick me up that Crucial SSD I spoke of. Been wanting one since last year and never followed thru with it. Going to wait and see what the fermi as well as 5890 do before I jump on that boat. :D

Man I got to save up some and play the market. There are so many stocks I've told the wife they were going up and missed the oppurtunity.

not to mention now with the Atom and low power consumption stuff I think they may make a move tawards smrat phones and crap like that

Thinking about how many phones are sold in this disposable phone age is mind boggeling .............

I think Atom is kind of low margin wise, but not sure. I mean they already have the fabs and process when they came up with the design. Remember that intel hands their hands in more than the CPU cookie jar. They make RAID storage processors, NIC's and a host of other crap.

[Kal-EL]

You guys have fun speculating, postulating and hypothesizing with a pinch of hatorading?
If you guys needed a hug, just ask next time, :hug:

[Chuchnit]

You guys have fun speculating, postulating and hypothesizing with a pinch of hatorading?
If you guys needed a hug, just ask next time, :hug:

See what happens when you go away for a few hours? :blush: