Different Type of Overclocking Leagues

[Kal-EL]

http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9801

Hey boys and girls,

Given the recent commotion about the Overclockers League being totally unfair (http://www.overclockaholics.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif), we have tried to come up with a different style of overclocking league. As a try-out, we've made a very rough sketch of what could be an AMD overclockers leauge. The link is not visible through the front-page (since it's not an official feature), but you can check out what it's all about here: http://hwbot.org/rankings/amdleague/ (http://hwbot.org/rankings/amdleague/)

As you can see, without too much issues we can make rankings based on specific hardware or manufacturers. This page is a nice concept of one of the ideas we've been playing with to seperate the extreme overclockers from the regular overclockers. Instead of thing top-down (eg: pro league), we've made an alternative going bottom-up. This means that we do not seperate the super-seeded from the regular-seeded, but the extreme from the non extreme.

The enthusiast league:

- cooling limited to ambient (= stock, air, water)
- frequency of each CPU and VGA limited to undisclosed value to prevent cheating and golden samples ruining the game
- no seperate result ranking based on cooling, points are gathered from the normal rankings(*)
- possibly: exclude expensive hardware from rankings

The extreme league:

- no cooling limitation
- no frequency limitation
- points are gathered from normal rankings (*)

(*) the normal rankings are rankings based on the hardware/manufacturer limitation. So, for this AMD league, the points are not calculate based on the entire database, but only based on the results with AMD/ATI hardware. This means it's possible that certain benchmarks (eg: 01 and 1M) have less weight than the normal rankings because they are a lot less popular than when you include intel hardware.

The idea behind using the same rankings for the enthusiast and extreme rankings is that there will be noticable transition when you switch from ambient cooling to extreme cooling. To show you how it works, this example:

- my best score on ambient cooling is rankined 89th in the superpi 1M ranking; I get 20 points for that.
- those 20 points are added to my total for the enthusiast ranking; I now have 180 points

- the next day, I use LN2 to cool my cpu and get a score that is ranked 15th in the 1M ranking; i get 60 points for that.
- these 60 points are added to my total for the extreme league

Since only your best submission is ranked, the submission with ambient cooling now receives 0 points. So, the total for my enthusiast league has dropped with 20 points. This method applies to all rankings and categories, which makes it a necessity to only choose for ambient, or only choose for extreme overclocking (since you cannot have two accounts in hwbot). So, you can be the Extreme King, or the Enthusiast King ... but not both. This, to make sure the extreme overclockers play in their own league.

Note: the current ranking has not been calculated as explained above. It would take too much time to do it properly, and time is something we do not have available currently. At this moment, we just make a sum of all points that are added to AMD/ATI scores.

http://hwbot.org/blog/wp-content//amd-league.png

[DrNip]

Right, right. I like.

[FACE]

hmmm..... what about when the cpu is extreme cooled, but the gpu is stock or water cooled? where does that go? :Dizzy:

[Chuchnit]

Total fail in my book. I expected nothing less from hwbot crew though. They know best and all they have to do is "educate" us on how things should be done. :thumbdown: Kinda like Obama if you think about it.

I just find the "undisclosed" frequency limitation and whatnot after all of their excuses for not doing something before. This actually contradicts their own words.

[Neuromancer]

I am 87 out of 100. *sigh

Interesting idea, can't say that I hate it. But if it is truly separate than it would only hurt the top clockers yes?

The enthusiast league sounds interesting I am sure it would not be too long before people figure out the limits though. 99 submission for every processor at 4.299 GHz

blech. whatever happens happens.

[Hondacity]

i think this is more for air and water coolers....

air and water guys are surely numerous...hwbout would love to have them onboard.

[Splave]

why do they always need to change everything?
no way to make sure of type of cooler. Also so now an overclocking website is limiting your overclock. Something is very wrong here.

Just get rid of ES bullshit scores and be done with it.

[Neuromancer]

Allen I think you are missing the point. I see the cons... but I dont think they are what you think they are. The benefits are that... everyone gets to compete at some level...top "air cooler" or what have you... and yeah who makes the top clock? Anywho...

The other Pro is... you get to submit your testing phases and get more boints from it.

(unless you run LN2 24/7 then well I guess you are fucked)

The con is... this is not going to help the guy that cant afford LN2. Because the guys that can still OC on air/water to practice submit.

I did not see anything about the leagues being mutually exclusive. That LN2 guys couldnt hit up the AIR league or AMD league wahtever it was (not sure.. I do "okay" on air or AMD... without LN2... better than the average joes at least. I only got as many points as I do (which is not much) because of DIce/LN2 and Intel+GPU benches. Cant think of one 3D benchmark that is not intel specific.

For that matter. How about throwing in some actual GPU benchmarks. not just "futuremark system benches" Why does a 3D test need 2 out of 4 benches to be CPU?

They are trying to fix what is wrong with the bot. The problem is... the have no clue. How about GPU tests that test the GPU, not the CPU.

or have 2D 3D and system (IE futuremark) tests...just a thought.

EDIT: Just thought of something else....

HWbot used to be on the number of submissions per device... so SLI got easy points. Might this be the case in v4... and removed in v5??? Probably. Except this time it would apply to CPUs....

[Buckeye]

Oh they forgot all about actually scanning submissions to make sure they are legit, not copies, or shared scores.

Yup FM can do that right now if they wanted to. Shoot they don't even check keys. The Bot has nothing.

How are they going to handle all the different tricks people play with Water Cooling/Air Setups. AC blowing on your Air Cooler, Chilled Water Loops etc.

Its all good and I think people need there seperate play gounds so others can play, but lets fix the basic stuff first.

Yes on remove ES chips removal.

Leagues should also consider sponsored guys, seperate League for them. Do this so we don't get the dirt track guys being forced to play in the Indy Car League.

[Patch]

Don't really care anymore.

Whatever they decide, I'll adapt.

Whatever system/level you talk about, it's 20% tweaking and 80% binning anyway. With NDA mods and ES wild cards thrown in.

[RomDominance]

I believe I understand the new hbot concept completely. Its the same bullshit as kid's soccer here in the U.S. Everbody gets a trophy just for showin up. They have socialized everything else, why not this? I want a league for everyone who uses only stock voltages in their submissions. After all, it could harm hardware overclocking it....just like excluding certain folks from hwbot could harm assman's profits. Are we so used to stupidity that we will just keep taking this lying down?

Next time we are playing UT3 together Kal, and your ahead, I want you to bring me a bunch of skulls and stand there and let me kill you and run them in. That way I will have a sense of fairness and equality, even though you are better at the game and have put more time in. Really guys? wtf?:micro:

[rickss69]

^ LOL! :taunt:

[Hondacity]

Oh they forgot all about actually scanning submissions to make sure they are legit, not copies, or shared scores.

Yup FM can do that right now if they wanted to. Shoot they don't even check keys. The Bot has nothing.

How are they going to handle all the different tricks people play with Water Cooling/Air Setups. AC blowing on your Air Cooler, Chilled Water Loops etc.

Its all good and I think people need there seperate play gounds so others can play, but lets fix the basic stuff first.

Yes on remove ES chips removal.

Leagues should also consider sponsored guys, seperate League for them. Do this so we don't get the dirt track guys being forced to play in the Indy Car League.

its time to dominate air cooling :))

[Chuchnit]

I believe I understand the new hbot concept completely. Its the same bullshit as kid's soccer here in the U.S. Everbody gets a trophy just for showin up. They have socialized everything else, why not this? I want a league for everyone who uses only stock voltages in their submissions. After all, it could harm hardware overclocking it....just like excluding certain folks from hwbot could harm assman's profits. Are we so used to stupidity that we will just keep taking this lying down?

Next time we are playing UT3 together Kal, and your ahead, I want you to bring me a bunch of skulls and stand there and let me kill you and run them in. That way I will have a sense of fairness and equality, even though you are better at the game and have put more time in. Really guys? wtf?:micro:

LMAO that's about the perfect way to put it. If anything there should only be two leagues. Pro & Am. No cooling bs or anything else. Regarding socializng everything, see my post in another thread. I've already said my piece on that. :laughing::ohcrap:

[Splave]

OC special olympics

[Neuromancer]

OC special olympics

IT is the only way some of us can feel special :):Hi:

[Splave]

than Im cool with it :)

[Neuromancer]

lol

[RomDominance]

Well, Splave, Kal and myself are goin to be proactive about thus lull in benching and disgust in our "sanctioning body of overclocking"

Look this weekend for a huge contest announcement on OCA. Think low clock, OCA team members with less than 450bts, and best of all...a complete benching rig with cpu pot included, up for grabs. Spread the word, throw down the gauntlet, let none stand in your way....SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY

[HITandRUN]

Don't really care anymore.

Whatever they decide, I'll adapt.

Whatever system/level you talk about, it's 20% tweaking and 80% binning anyway. With NDA mods and ES wild cards thrown in.

Agreed! They will do whatever they want anyway and will will have to adopt or drop the game! Get rid of the ES noobness also! :thumbsup:

[Neuromancer]

Yeah its all good. TBH IT is not that hard to compete even without DIce/LN2. As long as you pick you categories well (lots of subs) Grab a $200 CPU and you can bench the crap out of some GPUs.. especially older ones...

You wont be a top ten boint leader, but you also should not be either. Why should you get the same amount of boints that top fuel funny benchers get?

the differnce in boints between enthusiast and hipo OCer will still be the same... they just want EVERYONE to have 1000 boints I guess. (Of course then splave/Dent will pull in 30K by themselves...)

[Witchdoctor]

If it ain't broke , don't fix it ...

one league is good enough IMO ....

lmao on the funny benchers .......

[GFDuke]

Well, Splave, Kal and myself are goin to be proactive about thus lull in benching and disgust in our "sanctioning body of overclocking"

Look this weekend for a huge contest announcement on OCA. Think low clock, OCA team members with less than 450bts, and best of all...a complete benching rig with cpu pot included, up for grabs. Spread the word, throw down the gauntlet, let none stand in your way....SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY

That sounds like a very generous offer. I hope these guys jump on it. it will be an epic battle no doubt. I can't wait to see it.

[Mr.Scott]

Believe it or not, I'm against the different types of leagues sorted by cooling. Why?.......No way to prove the type of cooling or temp in realtime, and no way to stop downclocking for the screenies. It'll be a total sham. There are already a million cheats there, why give them more ammo. HWBot can't control what they have going already. BTW, I got into another altercation with K404 in this thread, http://www.hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9801, specifically the troll in post #13. Consequently, I got bitched out by the mods and had all my posts removed from that thread. I'm really starting to hate that bitch.

[Splave]

totally agree scott

You can be creative and not spend an arm and a leg to compete atleast 2d wise. i5 is epic for spi1m okay for 32m, great for both wprimes, good for pifast etc.

[Neuromancer]

Did not get to see your posts scott, but what I read in that thread is ridiculous

I submitted a new suggestion for hwbot.

No overclocking at all. It is unfair to those on pc's that do not overclock.