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Old 02-19-2010
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Default Temps & Watts, CPU's and Extreme Cooling, Part #1

In the beginning when I first started using different methods of extreme cooling the first unit I tested was a Jinu Single Stage Cooling unit that was custom made for me. This was an amazing cooling unit that included a Single Stage Phase Chiller installed in a TJ07 case.

The TJ07 cooling tower sat next to what I called the main rig which was in another TJ07 case. It had a EVGA 790i SLI motherboard and a QX9770 which ran at 4.8ghz overclock for 24/7 use. It was an amazing machine that had so much power at the click of the mouse button to run anything I wished at an instant.


Later as I became even more interested in extreme cooling and searched for even better ways to cool things. This amazing machine enter my work area. Built in 2006 by Jinu, this 2 Stage Cascade was the most powerful cooling unit I had, and I love every minute of using it.


Over time with using these machines you find that they have pro's and con's. On the good side, they get very cold and can handle high watt loads to keep overclocks stable. On the bad side they can generate lots of heat and can make a fair amount of noise like the 2 Stage Cascade.

The people who build these units, for the most part, understand how they work, at least some do, but often designs are copied that work with out much regard to how and why things are done.

Designs come and go, some build different units called benching units while others are smaller and built to fit in a case with the computer.

The problem that every unit must address is the heat coming from the CPU while its running in a overclocked state. Load testers are constructed that can be set to a given watt load such as 300watts and the unit is tuned for that heat load.

Tuning can be a tricky business that involves cutting cap tubes, charging the unit with refrigerant of a given type to a whole host of other ways. Different parts such as the Evaporator can play a large role in the capabilities of the unit and how it handles a heat load.

Here are three different types of Evaporators. A Chilly1 on the far left, a Teyber Stepper in the middle, and a Jinu Maze type on the far right.


There are a whole host of different types of Evaps and they vary in design from builder to builder. But which type works the best for a given cooling unit ?

So far that I have seen, there is no way to actually measure the effects of these things besides throwing a load tester on the unit and set to a watt load, or by what a builder says works well or doesn't, with no real way to back that statement up with data other than experience of the builder and what they say.

Some of the things I am interested in to study are effects of Evaporators on units, how fade can be addressed and what does the heat output of a CPU really look like during a test.

I began building a setup that could monitor both temps and watt loads at the same time and show those readings in graph form so you could see just what was happening during a test.

Now there is problems when attempting this. One of the problems is how can I measure the heat output of just the CPU while the computer is running ?

Besides using a load tester, measuring the temps at a given watt load like what was done for me when I picked up the Jinu 2 Stage Cascade.

At 200w… it is holding -95c…
At 270w… it is holding -89c….
At 285w… it is holding -87c….

So that is a start and gives me an idea on what to expect.

I have several phases to this project that I am working on. One is I need to build a load tester and I have some parts for that here now and awaiting the rest.

I will use the load tester to calibrate my findings, or at least have some set data points that I can compare data measured with.

To monitor watt loads while the computer is running I will have to use something like a Kill-O-Watt meter like this one pictured and a unit that has a USB interface so the data can be feed to a computer and graphed with a Watts Up Pro unit.


To monitor temps I will use a temp probe that has a USB connection so data can be uploaded to the computer and graphed along with power usage.


So now armed with the ability to measure and collect data, send that to a computer and graph the incoming data I will begin my first tests.

The computer for the first part of this will be as follows:

Gigabyte GA-790FXTA-UD6
AMD 965 C3 CPU
ATI 4890 for graphic card
Corsair Dominator GT 2000mhz CL8 memory
powered by a Coolermaster Ultimate 1100watt PSU
For cooling I will use a Jinu Single Stage Phase unit.

The first test here shows the temperature drop of the cooling unit unloaded, that is it is not connected to anything.


I must note here that the units I am using for monitoring temps has a little lag to it from the USB/Computer interface, so it is not 100% perfect in the time scale and it does have an error margin in the actual temp readings. I watched the actual temps with a Fluke meter and these are with in +- a few degrees C.

So now I have a base line of how the unit handles without a load. When the load tester is finished I will add to this actual watt loads and what the temp reads at to make a performance curve.

Lets add the watt usage of the computer now.

The second test will show the start up of this setup at stock settings, the power usage of the full computer and how watt load and temps change from power on to sitting on the desktop.

First the Jinu Single Stage Phase unit must be turned on and temps pulled down to operating temperatures, then the computer will be started and run until it is at the desktop and idling.

CPUz screen of what the CPU is set at and its vcore setting.




Now the system is started up and run until its idling on the desktop.


So here you can see that the start up of the computer and how many watts it is putting out, it maxed out at ~280 watts during start up and then settled down to ~210 watts while running on the desktop.

Temps started at room temperature and the Phase unit dropped to ~-48c when the computer was started. You can see that temps warmed up a few degrees C then settled down to ~-48c for normal desktop operation.

The Phase unit showed it can handle these watt loads very well.

So now we have the basic parts of the up and coming tests. We can see in graph form what the power in watts is being used by the whole computer and how the Phase unit responds to the watt loads generated.

In the next series of blogs I will show bench programs run, how everything responds to these tests and how things react to higher over clocks.

A special thanks to Archer for the inspiration in doing this project

Last edited by Buckeye; 02-19-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 02-19-2010
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Nice write-up Buckeye! Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2010
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Very cool project Bill. I really wish there was a way to measure the true wattage a CPU is pulling. Either way, with your method we can get close. I can't wait to see you start pushing it and the results you get.
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Old 02-19-2010
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Thanks

I have pushed the chip several times now and graphed the results. As I have a lot of ground to cover with this project I will be breaking this up in parts.

Needless to say some of the results are interestings. I am looking at how to pull all this together for the next posting.

There is also other machines and CPU's to run the tests on so I will not be limited to just the SS Phase unit.

Hopefully some good info will come out of this.
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Old 02-19-2010
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great stuff man.... in for the duration

I have been doing HVAC work for years but this is compltely different. I just recently built and SS with a friend who basically told me where to put the stuff and I put it together. We think there may be a leak but are continuing our diagnostics. Wished I lived closer than it would be easy but that is not the case. Hoping to have it up and running soon but early indication of some great preformance.

One thing maybe you can answer for me is on the load testers. I have seen that not once has the imediate mass of a CPU been duplicated or even atempted to be duplicated in a load tester, As a hunk of copper will disapate heat at a different rate than a CPU, as every base element has different thermal dinamics. Would this make conclusive results next to imposible? Really we are testing how much load the unit in question can disapate for the mass of the hunk of copper with a said load on it. if it were made of lead, nickel or zink we could possibly see three different results?
Possible ???

Also most of these evaps have not been enginered to meet certain requirments so would it be possible to get different results with the same eveporator give it would be used on the same unit. or are the manufacturing of these very controlled enviroment & why is there not factory testing and data on said evaps.

Sorry for being so long winded really caught up oin this stuff now as it fasinates me how home brew all this is as in my world of refrigeration unit for Commercial and residential use is all preformance rated with set charging weights and specific metering requirments ....

I was in total disbeleif when I asked gun the charging requiments and the answer was we have to dial it in on the fly ..... and metering is a best guess situation ????

Sorry if this goes off topic a bit just trying tio understand the logic and engineering behind these machiens. It should not be hit or miss ????
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Old 02-19-2010
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So many questions LOL

OK as far as evaps go I have not seen any data that shows these are engineered for any system. From teh early ones that are still used today made by Chilly1 we have no clue really on how he came up with that design.

Many use that evap because its cheap and easy to get. I am not trying to say it performs good or bad, I am just wondering why.

A huge number of different evaps out there are simply made by hand, the design looks good, they cut it and mount it on a machine and go either its good or bad.

Some of the really nice looking ones that I have seen, complex maze types look beautiful and some say they perform well, or its nice but very hard to keep liquid refrigerant in it. Things of that nature.

So builders use what they can get basically. Some building higher end units might use a different evap that a Chilly1, who knows.

There might very well be a manufactured load tester that tries to match how a CPU actually emits heat, I don't know. The load testers that we normally see builders use, and the one I am making now supply a heat load and call it a day. This works for what it is intended for, they are cheap to make and a need tool for a builder who is tuning his system so it can handle the loads of a CPU.

The final test is always on a CPU as that is the intended use for it.

The goal is to be able to see just what the heat output of a CPU is and I do have a few things coming that will show some very interesting results. I am not sure if actual CPU wattage is possible tho with what I can use here at home.
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O..... so these evaps for the most part are made in garages not on assembely lines ???

That exsplains a lot bro. The one we used gun got off some dude in Austrailia....

Kaly1 or something like that.... Gun calls it a stepper. He prefered it over the chilly one for some reason or another. can't wait to see more results and iff you have an i7 in the bull pen .... not to mention the 6 core beasts that are coming.............

Great stuff ......
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Old 02-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post
O..... so these evaps for the most part are made in garages not on assembely lines ???

That exsplains a lot bro. The one we used gun got off some dude in Austrailia....

Kaly1 or something like that.... Gun calls it a stepper. He prefered it over the chilly one for some reason or another. can't wait to see more results and iff you have an i7 in the bull pen .... not to mention the 6 core beasts that are coming.............

Great stuff ......
I think you know my plans

Yeah they are pretty much made is small shops, garages etc. The only one I know that is massed producded to any degree is the Chilly1, but that is also done on a small shop as far as I know.
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Very cool stuff it would probably be safe to assum regaurdless of the preformance good bad or indifferent that the chilly 1 will probably be the most consistant if you were to test say 10 of each type

Very cool thread hanging on the edge of my seat for more results
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Old 02-19-2010
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Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post
Very cool stuff it would probably be safe to assum regaurdless of the preformance good bad or indifferent that the chilly 1 will probably be the most consistant if you were to test say 10 of each type

Very cool thread hanging on the edge of my seat for more results
I would love to have 10 of each type
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