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Old 07-05-2011
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Exclamation REVIEW - der8auer's BEAST CPU LN2 POT

MaadDaawg's Maad Review of ...

THE der8auer BEAST LN2 CPU POT



Well, it finally arrived from Germany one cold Saturday Chicago afternoon.
BEAUTIFUL is perhaps the closest word to define this pot as it arrived with the entire outside of the pot polished to a mirror finish. The inside, as you saw when he first posted the BEAST on the forum, is a work of art in and of itself









The mounting bracket and backplate are made of POM, and are slotted to accommodate virtually any socket type. The threaded posts are heavier than the #6 rod used by Kingpin but still fit through the motherboard holes nicely. Each rod is held in place by 2 nuts with nylon washers (back plate), with the top bracket using black flat washers, springs, and a nice large thumb screw to secure it all to the motherboard (see first pic above).


Scope of the Review

Compare the performance of this new BEAST against the performance of the venerable Kingpin F1EE throughout each phase of a sub zero over clock session.



In one corner, the contender,the der8auer BEAST, weighing it at an incredible;
  • Copper base - SIX pounds FOUR ounces
  • Aluminum top - 6.3 ounces

And in the other corner, the reigning champ, the Kingpin FIEE, weighing in at a respectible;
  • Copper base - FIVE pounds FOURTEEN ounces
  • Aluminum top - 9.5 ounces

So as our two heavyweight contenders face off, predicting the outcome before getting into the trenches would be impossible as both pots are truly massive. Obviously, the inside of the BEAST appears to provide a significant increase in surface area over that of the F1EE, but it remains to be seen if that is advantageous or not. (You can see the F1 has seen its share of LN2 and map gas flame!)

BEAST


F1


Testing Parameters

Each pot will be tested from start (ambient temps) to finish (pot removal at -18C) of an extreme overclocking run, and parameters will be measured as best as possible.
  • System on w/o LN2 in pot. How long for CPU to reach +60C (4.8Ghz)
  • Cool Down. From 60C to -60C ( in 10C increments)
  • Pot Flashed – impact of glazing on temp changes
  • Find CB (-122C)
  • Flash pot – Find CBB (-118C)
  • Recovery
  • Run 3dMark Vantage – hold temp steady +/- 3C during test
  • Flash and remove pot at -18C

Testing Environment

Testing of the F1 took place in the dark dungeon of the MaadDaawg's subteranean laboratory, test of the BEAST took place in the dining hall (due to circumstances beyond my control). Both environments were artificially lowered to an ambient temp of +20C. As this required a good deal of A/C, both environments were cool and dry.

I had planned on using my state of the art Seiko Chronograph for timing the various phases. Unfortunately, the rigors of monitoring and maintaining the test temps made that virtually impossible, except, for the first stage of ambient to +60C.

Test Bed

Both units will be tested on a single test bed to insure results are not distorted by the performance of differing components. Test bed is comprised of;
  • Banchetto 101bench
  • ASUS Rampage III Extreme Black Edition
  • Intel Core i7 980X EE processor
  • 3 x 2 Corsair 2000Mhz Cas8 RAM (GTX3 in first pic)
  • Air cooled EVGA Black Ops superclocked GTX 580
  • LSI 3Ware 9650SE-4LPML RAID Controller card
  • 4 x 60GB OCZ Vertez 2 in RAID 0 (in Feser Solid Arrow)
  • PCP&C Turbo Cool 1200 TU12 single rail power supply
  • 64bit Windows 7 Ultimate
  • TIM; OCZFreeze
  • ASUS ROG Notebook for ROG Connect interface



BEAST

F1


Insullation

The motherboard was water proofed using malleable eraser on the top covering the entire area of the socket between he VRs, the HS, and the DRAM slot 1. Three gaskets were cut to fit over the uprights of the pot supports, two of shop towels and one of Armaflex. The holes in the towels were cut to sit relatively tightly around the CPU while the Armaflex was cut wider to allow the bottom of the pots to stick through and make contact with the CPU. The back of the motherboard was fitted with 4 layers of Frost King cut to cover the entire board. Each pot had it's own Armaflex gasket cut to fit its shape.

Each of the pots were first wrapped in blue painters tape, then one layer of Armaflex tape, and then covered by Armaflex pipe wrap. After mounting, the insulated pots were wrapped in shop towels held in place by rubber bands.

Initial Thoughts

BEAST

Likes
  • A thing of beauty, inside and out.
  • Large circular contact area on bottom for CPU coverage
  • A biggy for me. The aluminum extension sits inside the copper base and can be removed and replaced at any time

Questionable
  • Pre-drilled hole for temp probe larger than I would have drilled it
  • Will increased surface area and added bulk make for a fast stable pot?
  • Make sure you have a tight grip when you lower or raise this bad boy from your CPU.

F1

Likes
  • Solid build, proven performance
  • Also a beautifully crafted pot
  • Shape makes it a little easier to mount and dismount
Questionable
  • If mounted correctly, the aluminum pot cannot be removed until the unit is disassembled after use.
  • Why did team PURE have a different interior struture than mine?

General Notes
  • When I bench sub zero, I like to keep the aluminum top on to act as a pouring aid. At the same time, however, I prefer to remove the aluminum extension when I glaze the pot. If installed correctly on the F1 that is not possible, a minor inconvenience I admit, but, that's the way I do it. With the BEAST, removing the aluminum top is not an issue.
  • I like the backplate being made out of a non metallic (conducting) material, but do have some concern about the top mounting plate as Wiki states that POM is a great solid material until -40 degrees, a number we will be exceeding dramatically. (I am happy to report that this concern proved to be no issue)
  • With the mounting systems, the BEAST uses a small (diameter) spring without the stops that are found in the wide springs used on the Kingpin F1. This may prove a non-issue, however, I’ve always figured the stops give you something to gauge your mount with.
I expect this to be a great deal of fun as the BEAST and the F1 are as close to apples and apples as it comes!!

I learned after publishing the review, that there is a good reason that the hole for the digital thermometer is as large as it is in the BEAST. While we tend to use K-type probes (which are very tiny) the Germans use the solid bayonet probe, which is much thicker.


Since the hole can be filled with TIM while using the K-type, the larger hole accommodates both types probe.

PRICING
The retail price of the BEAST is about $350 delivered from Germany. When it was in production, the F1 price was approximately $275 delivered locally. As the F1 is no longer being produced and sold retail an actual apples to apples comparison of pricing can only be conjectured.
  • Copper is considerably more expensive than it was when the F1 was selling for $275
  • The BEAST contains 6 ounces MORE copper than the F1
  • The aluminum extension for the F1 costs $45 while it is included in the price of the BEAST.
  • These considerations even out the pricing so that both new pots are targetted at the same price point, so cost is NOT a significant factor in making a purchase decision.

PHASE 1 – The F1EE




I chose to run the testing on the F1 first only because I am familiar with it. I mounted the F1 with the aluminum extension sitting upside down so the aluminum was touching the copper of the F1 so they would freeze together and form a seal.

I then started the rig without any LN2 in the pot and parked myself in the BIOS temperature monitoring screen to keep track of the CPU temps.

Starting with an ambient temp of + 20C, it took 8 minutes and 7 seconds to reach +60C. A time I thought was very respectable.

I then brought the temps back down by pouring the LN2 into the pot, slowly at first, and the a little more aggressively to bring it down to +18C where I exited turned off the rig and switched the jumper to enable the LN2 profile of the board.

After enabling LN2 cooling, I turned on the rig and let it boot into Windows and used my K type thermocouple to monitor temps. My experience with the F1 has been that it takes a fair amount of both time and LN2 to bring it from +20 to -100C and this run was no different. One of the advantages of using the aluminum extension is that once the metals freeze together you can add a good deal more LN2 per pour without worrying about a boil over.

My experience with the F1 is that temps tend to drop slowly, as in .1 or .2 C at a time until the pot is glazed with the torch. So I torched the pot at -60C and this increased the increments of temperature drops to 6C to 8C.

As noted above, I hit the cold bug at -122C, which was very disappointing, but the good news was the cbb was -118C. My objective at this point was to keep the temp between -118C to -121C while running vantage at 5.5Ghz (I was able to reach 5.6Ghz but it wasn’t stable enough to run Vantage.



As always the F1 came through with flying colors and I was able to maintain the targeted temps. It did however, take a good deal of small pours but the F1 went up about as fast as it went down (temps) so it was relatively easy to control.




Shortly after running Vantage, I experienced some strange board/software issues as all my ROG connect voltages were showing maxed out numbers (i.e. 10volts on the CPU) and the board locked up. After letting it warm up I tried rebooting at various temps but it wouldn’t come back to life so I torched it down to -18C and removed the F1.

Fortunately it was apparently a software issue as everything tested fine the next morning when I threw a water cooling loop on the CPU and tested with my DMM. Still not sure what happened, but.

PHASE 2 – The BEAST




As per the test on the F1, I turned the rig on without LN2 in the pot, and then parked myself in the BIOS temp monitor and waited for the CPU to heat up to +60.

12 minutes and 37 seconds later I hit -60C.

Assuming my mounts were of the same quality (I'm usually consistent) The mass of the der8auer BEAST appeared to offer better non LN2 cooling, at least for the period of time left running.

Following the same temps used in the F1 test, I brought the temp down to +18C and shut down to change the jumper.

The BEAST seems to respond faster to lesser amounts of LN2 than the F1, most likely because of it’s incredible surface area. It’s a shame I wasn’t able to quantify the time/LN2 differentials, but the F1’s strong point has always been temp control, not rapidly changing temps so this really wasn’t surprising.

After booting back into Windows, I watched my temp meter drop as I added LN2 to the pot. The BEAST’s greater surface area again was evident in that the temperature dropped in 4 to 5C increments right off the bat. I glazed it with my torch at -60C and it increased to about .8 to 1C increments, so, after glazing the decrease in temperatures were about even with the F1 with the BEAST holding a slight advantage.

The BEAST also warmed up incrementally slower than did the F1.

I encountered the cb and the cbb at the same temps so again undertook to run 3DMark Vantage at approx 5.5Ghz between -118C and -121C. To my delight, the BEAST was just as good, if not a tad better, than the F1 at holding temps in this range. Whereas the BEAST tends to react faster to a pour, it gets warmer at a slower pace, so the need to pour to keep the temps in range was a little less daunting.



After running Vantage, I spent a little time trying to up the speed I could attain with this chip. The highest I was able to achieve while maintaining stability was 5.788Ghz.



Some more experimenting with this chip I suspect will get me to higher speeds, but, that is a story for another day.

Again, unfortunately, I was hit with all my software tools telling me the motherboard should burst into flames in any second. Vcore was over 10 volts as was the Vdimm. This time, I checked with my DMM and all voltage were exactly where they was supposed to be, but, the board was locked up. I warmed it with my torch down to -60C then -40C but could only get an immediate FF whenever I tried to boot.

Calling it quits for the day, I torched the pot until it hit around -18, then started to remove the hold down hardware and slipped the BEAST off the CPU. I tried booting with the pot off, and the board started right up, but, I wasn’t adventurous enough to let it run that way all the way to windows.

CONCLUSIONS
  • Both pots are excellent LN2 pots as the two are very close in capabilities.
  • If you own an F1 and are happy with it, there is probably no reason to run out and buy a BEAST, unless of course, you'd like to have 2 CPU POTS around the lab.
  • If you do not own a CPU POT and want to buy one, I would give a great deal of consideration to the der8auer BEAST as it is a great pot.
  • The F1EE is no longer made, and we don't have a read on the Gemini pots at this time, therefore, I would give the BEAST the hands down must buy, kick ass rating in this price range.

NEXT STEPS

Unfortunately, I didn’t have a Gemini pot to throw into the mix, but my doors are always open if Vince wants to jump from Detroit down to Chicago to repeat this exercise and compare notes. I'll rent a 230 liter dewar and buy him his favorite beer if he can ever make it!! (maybe he'll bring his new super secret pot too)?? I should be so lucky!

In any event I will rerun these tests again in the near future and post the update. Perhaps it will change viewpoints, perhaps not. In any event, I'll try and recruit a daughter to keep track of temp change times to give a little more detail.

I think it would be interesting to try both pots with DICE as well, so if time permits I'll run those as well and report the results.

It was a gas being able to freeze both of these great pots and play in the lab for awhile. I am a little disappointed that my chip froze so dame warm, and that the board locked up when it got cold. Next time perhaps I’ll use another chip and my 760 Classified and see what the results are.

Should be fun

~md

PS. Those of you who noticed, yes, Phsyx was on during both runs of Vantage, what a great CPU score!!

PSS. I made a video of both pots being cooled with 2.5 cups of LN2 but unfortunately my camera is so old the software won't work and my third party software won't download it either. As soon as I figure out to retrieve it I will post the video as well.
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Last edited by MaadDaawg; 07-06-2011 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 07-05-2011
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Excellent write up. Don't see too many pot reviews or tests. Lovin it.
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Old 07-05-2011
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Awe Man, good stuff Maad!!!
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Old 07-05-2011
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Thx Dawg
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Old 07-06-2011
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Thanks Guys, took a hellacious amount of time just to put it into [B] code much less pour and shoot pics.

A couple things I'm going to add to the review though that I'll start here with so those who have read the review won't miss them

1 - In regards to the F1, the aluminum extension is a $45 option while it's included in the cost of the BEAST. This raises the F1 cost to approximately $315 compared to the Beasts $350. This adjustment, and, equalizing the cost of the copper makes the der8aur pot the less expensive of the two.

2 - I've learned that in Germany, many over clockers do not use K-type probes, they use the solid probe with a handle, which accounts for the size of the hole in the BEAST being so large

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Old 07-06-2011
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nice review
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Old 07-06-2011
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Awsome work with the review!

Real Maad stuff in here
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Old 07-06-2011
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Nice review MD


Sorry to hear about all the board troubles.
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Old 07-06-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post
Sorry to hear about all the board troubles.
I'm thinking some higher voltages to keep it warm may be the answer ??

Hey - made the front page of the HWBOT.ORG news section
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Old 07-06-2011
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sweet
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