Moving into colder waters-build log I guess
 

Question...is this the temperature sensor? Must be seeing how it's right in front of the intake. Can someone please confirm my assumption.

it is... you can start a new thread in xtreme cooling

I probably will, but just had a quick question. Thanks.:thumbsup: Build Log

Moving into colder waters-build log I guess
 

So I have gone and boxed in the front of my a/c with 2" thick foam insulation and am just testing it out for something to do. Cold enough to have condensation on my blocks.

I will likely use it this way for a few days anyways. Until I get enough time to build a full fledged water chiller. How long would it take to build it if I had everything I needed?

Is it necessary to cut any lines and have to recharge the system to build a water chiller in a cooler?

Thanks for reading and any advice.


EDIT: 5 runs of IBT and it only hit 38c which is a small improvement.

Looks pretty epic man.

Here's an idea to help with extra condensation in the mean time of building a chiller..... insulate a dryer vent hose on the outside, and run the lines going to/from the a/c unit inside the hose, allowing cold air to be blown along the lines, and all the way to the motherboard, keeping the system cooler outside of the blocks and hoses, reducing condensation.

Any condensation should then be only on the outside of the hose. :thumbsup:

Thanks!

I had a bunch of tubular foam insulation laying around so I taped that on the 2 main lines.

I thought I had a problem...it started getting warmer, but now getting colder again. Was down to -15c in the box. I think the base of the sensor unit must have gotten so cold it shut down. Not sure though. Was weird because I put a hot light-bulb near the sensor to keep it warm.

Temps are really no better than without the box, but now my room doesn't get cooled off. :thumbdown:

How cold will my cpu get with a water-chiller?

There is a thread here where GutterZ made an epic chiller that got pretty damn cold. It should be in the water cooling section iirc.

I'll see if I can hunt it down as soon as I get a chance. :thumbsup:

Thanks again dude.

Here is a picture of my insulated lines, and also a picture of my temp sensor sticking completely out and I had a lamp right next to it, but the a/c keeps shutting off like it's getting down to temperature.

Ideas?

If carful no need to recharge refrigerant system

the evap will be submerged .... to chill the water

use some type of glycol to keep mixture from freezing but watch you vicosity to save your pump from pushing sludge though the lines

open or closed loop will work depending on preference

Closd would be cleaner but not as effective

just grab a rubber made cooler for a res ... large enough to submerge evap and closed loop if desired ....

So to get started

1. closed or pump and dump

2. just CPU or GPU loop as well

3. Draw up realistic demensioned drawling of system

4. know size of res and purchase

5. Remove casing from AC unit with out damaging anything

6. Plan and create a fan system/casing/bank for heat removal on the condensor

7. Compresor and eletronics stand to be incoperated with condemnsor or not

8. submerge evap

8. execut water cuircuit in and out of res regaurdless of type

9. Seal said res

9. install blocks/pump/pumps/and fill with gloycol distilled water solution

10. wire up pumps and test

11. fire compresor and let run for an hour

12. test viscosity of loop and adjust as needed

13. Tear da bot up ...... :thumbsup:

this is not meant to be a step by step all inclusive guide... just a generalization of the events that must occure to make this happen ....

Do you have any mechanical ability what so ever as it will be helpful ...

Best of luck ....

Excellent summary, thank you. I am fairly mechanically inclined and have tools. :thumbsup: Sounds like I'll be taking the a/c unit out in the shop for awhile.

Quick question....can I just unplug the temp sensor from the board in the a/c?

I think you have to jumper the thermostat. Just unplugging it doesn't give the desired results.

Your unit could be different though. Try unplugging and see what happens, if that doesn't do the trick, just short it out. :)

OK.

I decided to insulate all the tubes. I'm pretty sure it gained me 1-2c. Hard to tell with the thermostat still working.

I should have used some black electrical tape, but I always have way more gray around leftover from work.

UPDATE: I have shorted the 2 wires to the thermostat, and when the temperature inside that box reaches -15c the compressor shuts off. What gives?

oops, I tried to edit, but I flocked it up.

EDIT:

BUT, :blink: whether I leave the thermostat open(wires cut and separated) or closed(wires shorted) it behaves the same way. It shuts off @ -15c, and back on @ +5c(box temperature).

Very strange if you ask me. What should I do?

Here is a picture of......well it's obvious. The entire probe is inside the box.

Odd that it shuts off when the probe is shorted and at -15c. I'm confused, is the evaporator submerged in coolant or did you just put the rad up against the evaporator (cold thingy on the a/c)?

At any rate, here's our buddy Gutter'z v.2 Chiller action: http://www.overclockaholics.com/foru...ead.php?t=1218

Naww it's just a box on the front of the a/c. My rad is in the box, obviously, but the a/c is still whole and the -15c is the air temp inside that box.

Like I said I tried with the wires shorted and open, but now I have lengthened the wires to the thermostat so it's easier to work with and it's right on top of a light-bulb now. The compressor should be shutting off any second unless I have it straightened out.

Yup it still shuts off at the same temperature. F$#@$##@!

Thanks for the link.

The only thing I can think of is that the entire unit, including the compressor is getting too cold to function inside that contraption.

I know spfoam1 did a best air temp of -15c in a similar setup that blew -15c air into his sealed pc case.

I've been down the road, it was fun as hell tinkering with it all every day and tweaking till I found absolute best case scenario in efficiency and setup. But, I must say, once you go Ln2/Dice Pot action, you never look back except to say "Man, I wish I skipped that whole chiller phase I went thru" :laughing:

Man I'd have the a/c in the shop and the chiller built tonight, but I need to get 3 gallons @ of denatured alcohol, and antifreeze.

Heres a few pics from my quickchange action. I ran a chiller and an ducted a/c unit to the case. The cold air assisted with condensation issues and the insulation on the chiller tubes assisted in the retention of low temps.
http://www.overclockaholics.com/foru...read.php?t=336

I'm looking for my chiller build pics now.

Gonna update pics below as I find them:

http://www.x-cade.com/uploads/Supes/...%20(Large).jpg
http://www.x-cade.com/uploads/Supes/...%20(Large).jpg
http://www.x-cade.com/uploads/Supes/...%20(Large).jpg
http://www.x-cade.com/uploads/Supes/...hillerMOD.jpeg
http://www.x-cade.com/uploads/Supes/...s%2034%20C.jpg



CHILLER ON GPU 9800GX2 + north bridge
http://www.x-cade.com/uploads/Supes/...kTested008.jpg
http://www.x-cade.com/uploads/Supes/...kTested010.jpg

That's insane....when I get some money to spend I am going to get my board all waterproofed and really start playing. That bottom picture is awesome. :ohcrap: I want my system to look all frosty on top too.

I always used RV antifreeze and prestone windshiled washer fluid and a few drops of anti - fungal from the pet shop. It was the -50 windshield stuff i think. i never liked the idea of denatured alcohol in the system.

Thanks for the alternative solution.

Does it really matter what kind of antifreeze I mix with the washer fluid? Probably cheaper for sure to go with the washer fluid. If I go that route I can afford to get the project under way tonight and be running it tomorrow.

How much more condensation is going to form when the chiller starts pumping -30c coolant? Will I get frost?

do you have insulation on your board? i don't see any...

best way to insulate your board is with conformal coating..

-30c, you will definitely get frost :D

:ohcrap:I probably shouldn't even try it without properly insulating.....even with it upside down.

EDIT: Don't the cpu pins form condensation/frost right in the socket and short themselves out?

If you're not worried about rma'ng your board, you could pick up some paint on or spray on electric tape spray and go to town with it like this:

http://www.x-cade.com/uploads/Supes/...%20(Large).jpg


Just tape over any pcie,mem, power slots prior to spraying the stuff on ;)

Already RMA'd once, so I don't know.

Why doesn't the frost form in the cpu/pcie sockets, or do we do something else for that?

Frost and or Condensation is the enemy. If the cpu socket cold is low enough, it'll migrate outwards towrads the dimms and could cause condensation to form on the pins in there. It all depends on ambient temps, humidity and cold migration.

For the most part, in your chiller setup, the pcb shouldnt reach outwards to the dimm slot pins so you SHOULD be safe.

Some people put vasoline into the dimm slots for heavy duty cold applications but there have been reports of memory behaving funky/differently/not stable after a while with vasoline in the dimm slots. Same goes for pci-e slots.

Fix, cover up un-used dimms with kneeded rubber eraser to keep air out, seal around populated dimm slot with rubber eraser to keep air out. I don't think this will apply to your chiller scenario at all, I, myself, don't bother with the dimm slots, only the pcb around it under -196c ln2 temps.

You'll see alot of people using kneeded rubber eraser liberally on their boards, don't do that, it just spreads the cold outwards more. You're just concnerned with sealing the outer edge of the cpu socket so no air/moisture gets in there.

Just keep a sharp eye on condensation/frost and adjust as necessary and you should be fine and dandy. Everyone's experience is unique to their climate/humidity levels.

Definately. Insulation is mandatory in my book!! Kals explanation is right on.

So I really just need to do the area around the cpu socket on both sides of the board unless going LN2 then. I'm concerned with my gpus getting all frosty as they are in the loop too. I'll probably have to insulate both sides of them huh?

Wow I am tempted to go back to air on them....the reference coolers work really well, but I have 3 with full cover blocks and it would be a sweet frosty mess when the other gets back from RMA.

Having them in there before the cpu will probably prevent me from reaching the coldest possible cpu temp huh.....maybe only a couple degrees off I hope. I wonder how much higher I will be able to clock my cpu @ -20c?

Look for a drop of anywhere between 10-12c with two gpus, chipset and cpu on the chiller loop. You're performance will scale with the cold on everything. I'd start off with just the cpu and see just how much condensation you're dealing with first and expand from there.

I don't have a chipset block yet, I guess I better put that on my list. I don't really care about getting any more performance out of the gpus, but with 3 in there with air coolers the top 2 won't be getting very much air.....I may have to keep them on a water loop separately.

I won't stand for a loss of 10c on my cpu. :eek:

So will -30 get me a few hundred MHz (stable) on the cpu or no? I would love to be able to run this chip @ 4.5GHz(322x14) when I race. It would just somehow be better. I had it stable @ 4242MHz, but 1.6+v seemed like too much even with load temps in the low 40s.

Since your cpu is producing heat you probably wont get condensation or frost inside the cpu socket while it is running (with chilled water). Watch out if you are in a humid place or if you get colder. If you run the loop with the PC off you can get frost inside the cpu socket. With colder temps and you want to fill the cpu socket with dielectric grease. Use a low viscocity dielectric grease or you can bend pins seating the cpu. I learned that the hard way. Crazy PC has a low viscocity dielectric grease. The dielectric grease from NAPA auto is pretty viscous, so if you use that you need to heat it up with a heat gun before you try to seat the cpu. I gobbed dielectric grease all around the cpu socket and then covered that with carefully cut neoprene. Messy but effective. The grease comes off way easier than conformal coating.

Good pics GFDuke, that helps me visualize my build better.


Must be a bitch fixing bent pins with grease all over. Thanks for the advice dude!

AMD chip right?
I'm not big on AMD experience and cold, Rich aka Neuromancer could answer those Q's as he's been down the ln2 road with them fairly recently.

Video of some guys taking a phenom II to 6.5GHz with liquid nitrogen, and then helium to absolute zero. No cold bug.

Man, I'm sitting here staring at this beautiful picture, and wondering about the frost all over the graphics cards. Are they coated with nail polish or something?

And just fucking wow.:thumbsup:

yeah it looks nice :D

bad psu though LOL

Hehe, sadly "no", I ran it like that for a total of 3 sessions all frosted up and finally it bit the dust. It was my early trips into sub-zero land and some asshat with alot of experience posted that they didn't use any coating whatsoever on their ln2'd gpu's. SO I lost (2) 9800gx2's that way.

You won't get that kinda bullshit advice around here bud :thumbsup:

:laughing:

Low 40s is fine for load.

Of course with a chiller running... if anything happened that could quickly turn into 60-70C real fast..

I am surprised the CHIV can handle 322 HTREF my exerience with asus baords has not been very good at all for bus clocking. I so gotta sell my chIII now :)

Think you could drop the multi and see how far you can push the HTREF??? and which BIOS you are using :) por favor