[Chuchnit]

Meh all this is bullshit. You really think it'll stop anything? Nothing more than a bunch of crying in my opinion. The ONLY ES cpu's out right now that do what retail can't is PHII. RETAIL i7's are owning the benches.

Here's the deal. People should focus more on separating cooling methods than banning results. You think that intel or AMD can change the cpuid string to NOT say ES? Still a cherry, right? Then how can you tell if they bought it or not? Same thing with video cards. How many of the top ten spots for 3d benches have bought their own cards? What about their ram? I mean this shit cracks me up. People think just because they can see the ES in cpuz, thats the only hardware people are benching that hey don't own or has been hand selected.

Sorry guys, but even though I hate competing agaisnt sponsered overclockers, you can't stop this. There is too much money at stake for hte manufacturer

[RomDominance]

I disagree Chuch. Its really quite simple to fix. If a component is not available on the retail market, it has no place scoring boints. In regards to multi cpu platforms, simply divide them into a seperate class, end of arguement. I don't see an answer for the cooling debate though.

[Chuchnit]

Originally Posted by RomDominance

I disagree Chuch. Its really quite simple to fix. If a component is not available on the retail market, it has no place scoring boints. In regards to multi cpu platforms, simply divide them into a seperate class, end of arguement. I don't see an answer for the cooling debate though.

Rom, my point is this. So lets say that hwbot bans the use of ES cpu's. Now everybody says oooh....aaahhh the playing field is level now. No it isn't. Intel, AMD/ATI, and Nvidia rely on the results of their hardware to make money. They WILL still sponser people and WILL give them top notch gear. Did you not see the cpuz screenies from when K|ngp|n benched at AMD headquarters? None of those chips said ES. Luckily AMD, Vince, gomeler, and chew* were honest enough to admit these were handpicked retails. You won't always be so lucky.

Why would AMD or Intel not secretly hand out cpu's that are so leaky they can't make it to retail to someone. If they break a record, it boost their sales. I got alot to say about this and not enough time to type it. Will devulge laterz....

[Buckeye]

I don't think it's so much of a level playing field issue with ES to me.

It's the fact that they are illegal to sell and in fact cannot not be sold on many websites like XS. There is a NDA that goes along with Intel sending these chips out to manufactures and others and it has been know for a long time that it is illegal to sell them.

Buy allowing them to be used on HWBOT supports a black market of the sale of these chips.

I made a few posts on HWBOT about this then just left it alone as I will most likely do here, it's just not worth the internet battle to me about this so I can get a few points on HWBOT and put money into some ones pocket selling these chips illegally.

[3oh6]

Originally Posted by Buckeye

Buy allowing them to be used on HWBOT supports a black market of the sale of these chips.

i understand what you are saying Bill, but my results with the 975ES are 100% legal. i obtained the chip from Intel, i am under NDA, and i haven't broken any aspects of NDA. in this case, allowing an ES is not facilitating the sale of ES.

with that said, i know my case is in the minority and not the majority. if you really want to stop the sale of illegal ES's, it isn't up to HWbot or XS or anyone else. it is Intel. if they were accountable for the samples they send out, it wouldn't be an issue. that is my take on and as you said, the discussion can go no where fast, and i do see your side...i just have a different angle i am trying to share with you, that's all.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by 3oh6

i understand what you are saying Bill, but my results with the 975ES are 100% legal. i obtained the chip from Intel, i am under NDA, and i haven't broken any aspects of NDA. in this case, allowing an ES is not facilitating the sale of ES.

with that said, i know my case is in the minority and not the majority. if you really want to stop the sale of illegal ES's, it isn't up to HWbot or XS or anyone else. it is Intel. if they were accountable for the samples they send out, it wouldn't be an issue. that is my take on and as you said, the discussion can go no where fast, and i do see your side...i just have a different angle i am trying to share with you, that's all.

It's all good Jodi
Keep on Benching

[3oh6]

Originally Posted by Chuchnit

Meh all this is bullshit. You really think it'll stop anything? Nothing more than a bunch of crying in my opinion. The ONLY ES cpu's out right now that do what retail can't is PHII. RETAIL i7's are owning the benches.

bingo, and well said. i have an i7 975 ES i have posted results with, it is a real....errr....gem, yeah, that's it . it must be, it's an ES. if anyone wants it i will trade you for a sealed inbox W3540, hell, i would take my chances of getting a better chip from a 920

Originally Posted by Chuchnit

Here's the deal. People should focus more on separating cooling methods than banning results.

this is next to impossible. take the guys benching on "air" in -40C ambients. i can use water cooling but run that water at -30C. as for actually determining what cooling guys are running, impossible. you want to open the door to further rule breaking, introduce cooling categories. there just isn't a feasible method for policing, implementing, or determining cooling categories.

as for the last part of your statement, one word...BrianY. top 10, not a single piece of sponsored hardware. nothing handed to him, nothing binned except by him personally...and he isn't a millionaire. works every day of his life just to get by and feed his family. complaining that you can't compete is bullshyt, it is an excuse, plain and simple.

i am not sponsored in any way either, i do reviews in order to facilitate my benching. and if you think by doing a review for a piece of hardware is having it handed to me, think again. 80 hours of work for a proper review is hardly free. having the thousands of dollars of equipment to facilitate a proper review is not free. the knowledge to write a proper review is not free. the knowledge needed to understand all aspects of a piece of hardware for a proper review is not handed to you.

instead of whining, i compete by using what i have at my disposal. my skill set, my other hobbies, my knowledge to write reviews, to obtain hardware, and to bench that hardware. it is much easier to whine than it is to do something about it. you don't have to do it my way, everyone has their own methods, but just do it...don't complain.

[Chuchnit]

Originally Posted by 3oh6

this is next to impossible. take the guys benching on "air" in -40C ambients. i can use water cooling but run that water at -30C. as for actually determining what cooling guys are running, impossible. you want to open the door to further rule breaking, introduce cooling categories. there just isn't a feasible method for policing, implementing, or determining cooling categories.

Thanks, but you are right. That's why I don't say much about the cooling thing. It's just one of those impossible things to control. I however don't see a problem if you bench super cooled air. It's still aircooling, right? Same with water. Supes made his own chiler. Anyone who wants can.

Originally Posted by 3oh6

as for the last part of your statement, one word...BrianY. top 10, not a single piece of sponsored hardware. nothing handed to him, nothing binned except by him personally...and he isn't a millionaire. works every day of his life just to get by and feed his family. complaining that you can't compete is bullshyt, it is an excuse, plain and simple.


i am not sponsored in any way either, i do reviews in order to facilitate my benching. and if you think by doing a review for a piece of hardware is having it handed to me, think again. 80 hours of work for a proper review is hardly free. having the thousands of dollars of equipment to facilitate a proper review is not free. the knowledge to write a proper review is not free. the knowledge needed to understand all aspects of a piece of hardware for a proper review is not handed to you.

instead of whining, i compete by using what i have at my disposal. my skill set, my other hobbies, my knowledge to write reviews, to obtain hardware, and to bench that hardware. it is much easier to whine than it is to do something about it. you don't have to do it my way, everyone has their own methods, but just do it...don't complain.

I don't whine, cry, or throw a temper tantrum. Why? Because it's useless. The truth of the matter is I have other priorities that take my money over hardware fundage. Most importantly I lack the time. Do I say it sucks competing against sponsered guys? YES I do!! Do I say it is unfair. NO!! It is what it is. Honeslty I'd love to be one of those guys one day.

Now the truth of the matter is this; you gotta have big money to play with the big boys. You say BrianY. isn't sponsered, works everyday, etc. I'm sure thats true, but he also has a ton of $$$$$ worth of hardware. Point blank, its a money game almost as much as talent. Once again am I crying, etc? No, I just wish I had the availablility of the hardware. I don't whine. I just beat the crap out of the hardware I have available I hope thats the spirit everyone has. If anything compete with your personal best scores.

Now to point out something you mentioned about how you get hardware. This is one of my issues with the bot. Not the benchers but their stupid rules. HARDWARE SHARING!! You just mentioned that you bench your review samples. You don't own them. As a matter of fact, that same video card could be sent to gomeler, madshrimps or another reviewer that has a hwbot team. IMHO that goes against the whole "idea" behind the hw sharing rule. The thing is that I don't have a problem with how you operate, but rather hwbot's rule.

Here's how I see it. I have uber clocking i7. I mean this cherry does 5.7ghz 32m stable. Fellow hwbot member wants to borrow it to bench 2d. According to hwbot rules, that chip can only be borrowed for 3d runs. Well I see it as if I'm stupid enough to let someone else borrow my uber CPU, and take the risk of them beating me, then that is my problem. But the "spirit" of the rule is to bench what you own. Well alot of great benchers don't own their hardware. Look at the picture Vince posted in his thread on xs. He must have had 20 video cards on the table mounted with pots. He didn't buy those, and I bet some of those he technically don't own; NDA etc. I don't have a problem with that, but I do think its a double standard. Understand that 95% of the time I am all for "sponsered guys"

[rickss69]

Well said Chuchnit...