[Chuchnit]

So the other day I was sitting around mainly thinking about the pathetic financial situation of the US federal government. Then it hit me, most of our federal budget is nothing more than a giant ponzi scheme. The overwhelming majority of our federal budget is entitlement programs; social security, medicare, medicaid, s-chip, etc.

So what is a ponzi scheme? Well in basic terms it works like this. I tell all OCA hwbot members that if they give me money I promise a good return through investment. The trick is that I'm not going to invest any of their money. I'm gonna spend it. Since I'm so successful , I open up the offer to all OCA members and eventually all forums. In reality I am needing the new investors to come in with their money to pay the "profits" to the OCA hwbot members. For this to work I need new investors in perpetuity.

Ok so I made the bold statement that our government is running a giant ponzi scheme. So lets look at Social Security first. Its the one that most people feel that they "own" a part of and probably the most popular entitlement of all. In the 1930's that wonderful president Franklin Roosevelt came up with this grand thing called "Social Security". It was the saving grace for the older people during the great depression. There is a huge arguement that that rat bastard prolonged the depression with his shit policies, but that's for another day. So how it started was on the wrong foot but here ya go.

When the program was first started you could opt in or out of paying the tax. Obviously the latter option meant you weren't entitled to benefits later. So it already started out bad. From day one taxes payed in went to elderly people who never payed into the system. Now how it was sold was that they would just "save" the money for you and pay you when you were old. Eventually this didn't work so the wonderful people in DC took the opt out option away and made everyone pay into the system. I think this was under Lyndon B. Johnson. Of course that lame ass created Medicare/Medicaid and expanded social security to offer SS/I benefits. Every generation since the programs inception it has taken more and more workers to pay for each individual recieving benefits today. To throw salt in the wounds, our wonderfully wise leaders also use the funds for the program, which is supposed to be "under lock and key", to lend money to themselves via US gov't bond purchases. Another of the classy moves they make is to just flat out stick their hand in the cookie jar.

Ok so where are we today and how can I tie all this rambling together? How crazy am I? I mean there are legit arguements that say I'm off my rocker. One of the most legit arguements that even I rangle with is the largest difference of all. The US gov't. via the constitution is granted power to levy taxes upon the citizens. The people aren't willingly investing the money. I will admit the validity of the arguement on the surface, but when you break it down to just plain common sense I do believe I am right.

While I don't agree with 90% of these entitlement programs, I honestly think that almost all that voted them in had the greatest intentions for creating something good for the people. In the end power and corruption that is Washington, DC proved that with good intentions or not, people would use it as a piggy bank. I think it was Milton Friedman himself who said that government officials will spend all of the taxe revenues PLUS borrow as much money as they think they can get away with.

So here's where we are today. For generations and accross both spectrums of political parties we have used social security funds to basically cover up deficits and pay for unfunded liabilities. Of course we hear about the projected bankruptcy date but its so far away that it doesn't seem real. Still to this day though they continue to promise our returns will be there for all the taxes we've paid in. The problem is that less and less people (investors) are putting money into the system. Basically they are running out of new investors to pay the old ones. Just a couple ago it was announced that something like 46% of Americans don't pay any taxes into the sytem once they recieve all the credits and tax breaks. Actually most of them recieve more money back than they paid in during the year.

Sadly I think in my lifetime or the lifetime of my daughter Old Glory will fall due to financial reasons. Entitlement programs will be the number one cause. In the end with the current loss of actual paying taxpayers the ponzi scheme will fall. Just like Madoff. I will say that I didn't reference any sources while typing this, but rather its my own thoughts and knowledge I have gathered from sources on both sides of the isle. If you find a mistake in my arguement please correct me. If I sound like a fooking crazy ass, lemme know. I gots the thick skin and love to debate.

[underdog1425]

Madoff turned himself in btw. And most of his (his investors I should say) money was never found. He will be one RICH and dead mofo when he gets out.

But I really like this argument of yours, sure does put things in perspective.

I also like the argument that the past two recessions were supposed to be depressions but we 'fixed' them with dropping interest rates etc. A free market is like an organism, it will do what it needs to, and if it needed to go through a depression and we put bandaids on it to lessen the impact....then a depression is still on the way.

[Kal-EL]

Don't look at me mang, my country was illegally overthrown by the United States, you guys owe me some restitution and I'm not talking a few parcels of land to put up a Tiki torch or two.

Ua Mau Ke Ea O Ka Aina I Ka Pono

[Chuchnit]

Originally Posted by underdog1425

Madoff turned himself in btw. And most of his (his investors I should say) money was never found. He will be one RICH and dead mofo when he gets out.

But I really like this argument of yours, sure does put things in perspective.

I also like the argument that the past two recessions were supposed to be depressions but we 'fixed' them with dropping interest rates etc. A free market is like an organism, it will do what it needs to, and if it needed to go through a depression and we put bandaids on it to lessen the impact....then a depression is still on the way.

Ya Madoff really shook the whole system. When his story went public, all investor trust was shaken.

Well look, just like many things in life there are more than one way to skin a cat. I don't necessarily think that John Maynard Keynes was 100% wrong in his theory. Nor do I think supply-siders are wrong. Actually in their own respect they are right. IMO, you can choose either path and end with the same results when fighting with a recession. The question to ask is, what is the cost?

You are right about it being an organism. The economy, no matter what country, is like water. It will always find its level on its own. Sure it may slosh around a little but it will ALWAYS equalize. I personally think in the US that the Federal Reserve and actions of the US government do more harm than good. They create higher peaks and lower valleys. They increase the frequency in which we enter recessions. What you have is man trying to manipulate something bigger than their mind can comprehend. They tend to forget about the invisible hand that Adam Smith first spoke about in the 1700's and our fore-father's understood. You can't truly manipulate the market in the long run. The market will end up manipulating you.

Originally Posted by Kal-EL

Don't look at me mang, my country was illegally overthrown by the United States, you guys owe me some restitution and I'm not talking a few parcels of land to put up a Tiki torch or two.

Ua Mau Ke Ea O Ka Aina I Ka Pono

Damn island people. You can have California

[FACE]

Kal, might I interest you in some shiny beads and trinkets in exchange for your fine real estate?

Dammit, Chuck... I have been trying so hard not to think about this crap....

*punches random liberal in the face* (they're easy to spot )

[Chuchnit]

Originally Posted by FACE

Kal, might I interest you in some shiny beads and trinkets in exchange for your fine real estate?

Dammit, Chuck... I have been trying so hard not to think about this crap....

*punches random liberal in the face* (they're easy to spot )

lmao don't go punching progressives in the face FACE. So where am I wrong? I know my theory isn't perfect. Plus I'm at work so I can't keep a train of thought long enough to type a coherent idea. Alway getting interupted by the damn phone.

[FACE]

Well, I honestly believe that the way things are done are at eol phaase right now.. But, I don't think America will fall in same way Rome or any other empire did... The small timers, those directly affected by entitlement programs, will be hit the hardest, as those system will have to come to an abrupt end. the core engine of America will stay intact, since it is the best one to be built ever..... just like a snake every other season, this country will have to shed the old, crusty socialist entitlement skin off and start anew...

there will be no need for a revolution, no need for new regulation... the way it is designed to run now is unsustainable, and will end itself, leaving us right where we started... where hard work and common sense actually pay off, and those who do nothing get nothing.

[HITandRUN]

Nothing will fall since we are too good in making new debt and print more money!

[Chuchnit]

Originally Posted by FACE

Well, I honestly believe that the way things are done are at eol phaase right now.. But, I don't think America will fall in same way Rome or any other empire did... The small timers, those directly affected by entitlement programs, will be hit the hardest, as those system will have to come to an abrupt end. the core engine of America will stay intact, since it is the best one to be built ever..... just like a snake every other season, this country will have to shed the old, crusty socialist entitlement skin off and start anew...

there will be no need for a revolution, no need for new regulation... the way it is designed to run now is unsustainable, and will end itself, leaving us right where we started... where hard work and common sense actually pay off, and those who do nothing get nothing.

Well if the countries government fails it will be the people living setting up the new system. The problem is those are usually the worst ones. Hitler ring a bell? He was a "savior" for Germany when he first came to power. Hitler is an extreme example and I know that, but people of that character are the ones who try to seize the opportunity for power when the time comes. Look at history excluding the American and French Revolutions. The real hope is for us to start fresh from day one with the ORIGINAL Constitution!! Fill in the blanks as the needs arise with common sense and practical experience.

What you forget about things is the social unrest that ensues after such a thing happens. Country can't borrow any more money. They can't print anymore because its worthless. Hell your meal changes prices before you finish eating. Financial collapse doesn't mean that factories just shut down and there is no more activity in the country. It means that the currency and debt becomes so bad that people suffer. Suffering causes despair. With despair you have social unrest; aka riots.

Originally Posted by HITandRUN

Nothing will fall since we are too good in making new debt and print more money!

Sir, that too can come to an abrupt halt!! Printing money comes after the failure of issuing more debt though.

[MaadDaawg]

When Social Security was started, it was guaranteed that no one would ever pay more than $78 a year into the system.. gone kinda screwy I guess.

I used to think that all the progressive governments that have blessed us with all this entitlement bullshit, like ObamaCare, were sincere. But I got to tell you, watch the Glen Beck show a few times and you'll start thinking differently. He ties it all together with tons of historical data. The "progressives" have been taking us toward socialism since before FDR. they are following a game gook written by Walter Lipman (ya gotta be old to remember him) and they are right on target. The depression that is coming is planned - it will not be by accident.

Originally Posted by Chuchnit

So the other day I was sitting around mainly thinking about the pathetic financial situation of the US federal government. Then it hit me, most of our federal budget is nothing more than a giant ponzi scheme. The overwhelming majority of our federal budget is entitlement programs; social security, medicare, medicaid, s-chip, etc.

So what is a ponzi scheme? Well in basic terms it works like this. I tell all OCA hwbot members that if they give me money I promise a good return through investment. The trick is that I'm not going to invest any of their money. I'm gonna spend it. Since I'm so successful , I open up the offer to all OCA members and eventually all forums. In reality I am needing the new investors to come in with their money to pay the "profits" to the OCA hwbot members. For this to work I need new investors in perpetuity.

Ok so I made the bold statement that our government is running a giant ponzi scheme. So lets look at Social Security first. Its the one that most people feel that they "own" a part of and probably the most popular entitlement of all. In the 1930's that wonderful president Franklin Roosevelt came up with this grand thing called "Social Security". It was the saving grace for the older people during the great depression. There is a huge arguement that that rat bastard prolonged the depression with his shit policies, but that's for another day. So how it started was on the wrong foot but here ya go.

When the program was first started you could opt in or out of paying the tax. Obviously the latter option meant you weren't entitled to benefits later. So it already started out bad. From day one taxes payed in went to elderly people who never payed into the system. Now how it was sold was that they would just "save" the money for you and pay you when you were old. Eventually this didn't work so the wonderful people in DC took the opt out option away and made everyone pay into the system. I think this was under Lyndon B. Johnson. Of course that lame ass created Medicare/Medicaid and expanded social security to offer SS/I benefits. Every generation since the programs inception it has taken more and more workers to pay for each individual recieving benefits today. To throw salt in the wounds, our wonderfully wise leaders also use the funds for the program, which is supposed to be "under lock and key", to lend money to themselves via US gov't bond purchases. Another of the classy moves they make is to just flat out stick their hand in the cookie jar.

Ok so where are we today and how can I tie all this rambling together? How crazy am I? I mean there are legit arguements that say I'm off my rocker. One of the most legit arguements that even I rangle with is the largest difference of all. The US gov't. via the constitution is granted power to levy taxes upon the citizens. The people aren't willingly investing the money. I will admit the validity of the arguement on the surface, but when you break it down to just plain common sense I do believe I am right.

While I don't agree with 90% of these entitlement programs, I honestly think that almost all that voted them in had the greatest intentions for creating something good for the people. In the end power and corruption that is Washington, DC proved that with good intentions or not, people would use it as a piggy bank. I think it was Milton Friedman himself who said that government officials will spend all of the taxe revenues PLUS borrow as much money as they think they can get away with.

So here's where we are today. For generations and accross both spectrums of political parties we have used social security funds to basically cover up deficits and pay for unfunded liabilities. Of course we hear about the projected bankruptcy date but its so far away that it doesn't seem real. Still to this day though they continue to promise our returns will be there for all the taxes we've paid in. The problem is that less and less people (investors) are putting money into the system. Basically they are running out of new investors to pay the old ones. Just a couple ago it was announced that something like 46% of Americans don't pay any taxes into the sytem once they recieve all the credits and tax breaks. Actually most of them recieve more money back than they paid in during the year.

Sadly I think in my lifetime or the lifetime of my daughter Old Glory will fall due to financial reasons. Entitlement programs will be the number one cause. In the end with the current loss of actual paying taxpayers the ponzi scheme will fall. Just like Madoff. I will say that I didn't reference any sources while typing this, but rather its my own thoughts and knowledge I have gathered from sources on both sides of the isle. If you find a mistake in my arguement please correct me. If I sound like a fooking crazy ass, lemme know. I gots the thick skin and love to debate.